Technical 2.3 engine cutting out?

[barrya]

hi steve there must have been delay in posts fiat were sugesting that the gearbox could have been the problem however mine is auto so that has been ruled out they have cleaned my egr and tested and this is ok they have now sent fuel tests to fiat and awaiting there input we have checked air bag ecu seems fine my mechs feel it is the main ecu having a fit have you tested the main ecu[ they suggested] all other tests you have posted correlate with the tests they have done and have produced the same results.am waitng on fiat italy to analyse fuel tests.

 

[Stevo101]

I am getting to bit of a dead end I have to admit. Over the last couple of days I have tried different things but still with no joy.

I have tried emailing Fiat Uk but still not had a response. Can I ask who your contact is? Do they have an email I could use?

Is there a reason you guys tested the airbag ECU? The software I have used (Multiecuscan) pointed to the ABS ECU along with other things. Have you checked that one yet?

I have not had the main ECU tested as yet.

On the link to the post I put up earlier in the thread I have got a lot of graphs of real time data capture which may be of help, also everything that I have done is on there.

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk...to-X250-engine-cutting-out-/41688/31/#M495506

 

[barrya]

hi steve my contact is the fiat dealer who i bought the vehicle from they have ruled out the airbag ecu after sending the fuel test results to fiat italy they have been told that the it is the injectors that are faulty and to replace them ($1400 each) they are saying that the injectors are leaking at the top???? this becoming a nightmare for me as well

 

[corcai]

hi steve my contact is the fiat dealer who i bought the vehicle from they have ruled out the airbag ecu after sending the fuel test results to fiat italy they have been told that the it is the injectors that are faulty and to replace them ($1400 each) they are saying that the injectors are leaking at the top???? this becoming a nightmare for me as well

Injectors can be bench tested at a bosch diesel center rather than throwing money at the problem. Also new injectors are less than half the price at iveco on this side of the planet so if you have iveco over there its worth checking with them.

 

[Stevo101]

There is someone over here who is somewhat an expert with these things. He is pointing in me towards to possibility of it being the throttle body that may have failed.

From what I have read it's not worth trying to clean them but just replace them. They are somewhat of a weak component.

Has your garage considered this at all??

"I have been observing this most days and have had little to add really until now. Your earliest posts led me to believe that the engine was cutting out; ie: not running at all when the problem occurs and that convinced me that it has to be a fuel issue. Later posts suggest that you are losing power but the engine does not stop. Which is right?

Assuming that the engine does not stop; the throttle body and EGR solenoid on the 2.3-150 engine are quite different to the 2.3-120 engines that i am familiar with but it does sound highly likely that you have a defective throttle body. I think a plug-in at a Fiat dealer would confirm this for you. I don't have any history to call upon since we have never run any 150's until the Euro 5 engines of late but the symptoms do fit and disconnecting the EGR solenoid does change things for you and that is as much as a clue as you will get. "

 

[Stevo101]

I have lost count of what chapter this is on now.

I have received my adapter connectors to enable me to scan the other modules.

I cleared everything and scanned it with the ignition on engine off. All clear.

Started the engine and the dashboard and body modules both read code U0019 - Low Speed CAN Communication Bus

The engine and ABS were clear.

I will take it for a run after dinner and see what else I can add to the list!

 

[Stevo101]

Well looking on the bright side the only other code to ping was the original one that started this thread off.

So only two codes.

The only thing that concerns me is on the software when I try to activate the EGR solenoid it fails to do it with some code 24 which I will look into now.

I used another program and dragged this information from it about the vehicle.


Injection control unit: Programmed
Engine startup: Allowed
Universal code: Not enabled
Electronic key: Enabled
Type of cruise present: Cruise control
Climate control/conditioner: Learnt
Brake node (NFR): Learnt
Electric fan mode: On/Off
Engine oil level sensor: Not learnt
Odometer: 88455.10 km
Odometer at last rewrite: 7063.00 km
Number of rewrites: 1
Number of overrevs: 0
Maximum engine speed: 0 rpm
Maximum engine speed counter: 0.00 msec
Last overrev odometer: 0.00 km
Functioning time (eeprom): 131440 min
Time since Key-On (eeprom): 465 sec
Key On Counter (EEPROM): 12766
ECU Time first DTC detection (EEPROM): 0 min
ECU Time Stamps from KeyOn first DTC detection (EEPROM): 0 sec
Key-On counter alignment: 127
Odometer at last ECU replacement: 88455.13 km
Vehicle version:
With DPF and Lambda upstream sensor
EGR high pressure valve control status:
Air quantity control: Enabled
EGR position control: Disabled
EGR valve learn: Disabled
ECU Time Stamps (RAM): 131450 min
ECU Time Stamps From Key On (RAM): 15 sec
Speed limit: None
Water in diesel filter: Not present
Failure warning lamp: Off
Distance travelled with 'Water in diesel' warning lamp 'ON': 6015 km
Distance travelled with 'Water Temperature' warning lamp 'ON': 0 km
Power latch duration: 1 msec
Glow plugs lamp: Off
Water temperature warning lamp: Off
Variable geometry turbo valve status: Not learnt
Engine oil pressure: Normal
Preheating control unit: Off
Preheating control unit diagnosis: Correct
Clutch pedal: Released
Accelerator pedal potentiometer track : 2
Clutch pedal extended: Released
Brake pedal: Released
Brake contact 2: Released
Brake pedal: Released
Conditioner enable request: Off
Conditioner relay control: Off
Radiator fan control: Off
Fan speed: Off
Fuel pump relay command: On
EGR check: On
Gear engaged: No
Cruise switch: On
Cruise restore button (RCL): Released
Set cruise deceleration (-): Not requested
Set cruise acceleration (+): Not requested
Irreversible cruise error status: No error
Number of 'Oil change' procedures: 2
Odometer at last 'oil change': 81196.30 km
Distance to next oil change, km: 38100.00 km
'Oil change' request odometer: 68021.00 km
Oil degradation indicator: 84.71 %
Fan command 1: Not activated
Fan command 2: Not activated
Fan command 3: Not activated
Particulate filter regeneration: Off
Turbo control: Enabled
Lambda sensor status: Not active
Glow plugs control status: Not active
Number of regenerations interrupted by key off: 0
Km travelled with DPF warning lamp 'on': 0
Particulate filter state: 30% - 120%, Normal clogging
Last DPF replacement odometer: 88455.10 km
Odometer from last DPF regeneration: 115.70 km
Average temperature of last 5 regenerations: 673.00 °C
Average distance of last 5 regenerations: 1313 km
Average duration of last 5 regenerations: 505 sec
Total number of regenerations: 122
Fiat drawing number: 0
Number of regenerations since last oil change: 0
Cylinder 1 Injector Code: AR17AIB
Cylinder 2 Injector Code: ASS5FAC
Cylinder 3 Injector Code: A8S1D18
Cylinder 4 Injector Code: B1BGF5B

 

[FiatTechSam]

Hi guys, unfortunately the fiat ducato 2.3 has a very bad common problem with the fuel injectors, fiat know about this issue and are working to fix it, p0089 is the fuel injectors over fueling or sometimes not enough fuel, and also I've had it several times where the engine light doesn't even come on and it still cuts out, this is still an issue with the fuel injectors, as for the u1701, the only reason that comes on is because there's a fault with the engine so it shuts down the abs ecu causing a communication error (u1701) to test the injectors, remove the fuel return pipe of the top of the injectors, connect a leak off kit, start the engine and time 1 min, if the injectors are returning more than 20ml in a 1 min period they will need replacing

 

[Stevo101]

Hi Sam.

Thanks for taking the time to give us this unformation. I did have the code P0089 whch cleared when i changed the fuel filter. Maybe there was another underlying issue ie the injectors?

Last night I also pick up another code as per above. It was U0019. I cleared the fault and it reappeared on the body and dash mudules when I fired the engine up. Is there any way this could be linked?

Thanks again. Steve.

 

[FiatTechSam]

I'm a bit busy in the workshop at the moment but I will put that code in my fiat database later and it will give me a repair guide and let you know,

Like I said the p0089 may have disappeared but on multiple occasions we have had customers saying that theire ducato keeps cutting out and only the abs and esc light comes on.

9 times out of ten the injectors are faulty but do not throw a fault up it just shuts the abs ecu. But like I said il search that error code later on today

 

[FiatTechSam]

U0019 is a B can fault from the body computer, are you still having engine cutting out problems ?

 

[Stevo101]

Sadly yes.

I can clear all codes.

When I start the engine it throws up the U0019 on the body and dash computer.

I can then drive it and create the fault. Then the ABS ECU throws up the U1701 code again.

 

[corcai]

Sadly yes.

I can clear all codes.

When I start the engine it throws up the U0019 on the body and dash computer.

I can then drive it and create the fault. Then the ABS ECU throws up the U1701 code again.

There no avoiding it, you've got to examine the loom, connectors, intermediary connectors. If driving it is enough to throw up the abs error then getting someone to manipulate/shake the loom until it throws and error may help to narrow it down. to smaller section to examine.

 

[FiatTechSam]

I still think you should carry out a injector leak off test its realy easy and if you take it to a garage it will literaly take 5 mins, I think that's where you will find your problem.

 

[Stevo101]

Thanks Sam for your advice. I'm all out of ideas now.

I have checked connectors and looms twice already and found nothing.

It's time to take her in to someone. I've done all I can do.

Barrya - any news??

 

[corcai]

I still think you should carry out a injector leak off test its realy easy and if you take it to a garage it will literaly take 5 mins, I think that's where you will find your problem.

Sure do a leak off test but low pressure isn't going to cause a canbus error, the cutting out coincides with the canbus error, and theres a good chance in fixing that error you'll find loom damage, water ingress, corrosion etc.

If the injectors were leaking badly enough to triggering limp mode under heavy load you'd usually have something like p0089 or p0191 though not guaranteed. Plot of requested vs actual pressure and regulator % would verify it.

 

[barrya]

hi not realy fiat are still saying it is leaking injectors and have tested same am waiting on new injectors from italy

 

[Stevo101]

Do you have any idea when they would have got the injectors in? I have mine booked in for next Tuesday / Wednesday I would be interested to hear what the result of the new injectors are?

 

[barrya]

hi dont know have to come from italy ??????

 

[Stevo101]

Can I ask Barrya.

Did your problem get worse for it to become undrivable?

How bad did it get?

I am looking to go away for a week in just over a week but don't want to risk getting stranded or damaging something else!

Do they not have Fiat dealers over there then?