Technical 100HP Axel Refurb

[IanV]

My rear axel was starting to look a bit grim, wouldn’t be long before it would be an advisory on the MOT.
I was at my local garage picking up my everyday car & mentioned it to the mechanic.
He gave me an opertunity that I could not pass up.
Bring it in he said, we’ll remove the axel you get it refurbed, we’ll fit it back on.
They had a lift going spare for a week & it beats trying to do it on the drive.
So took the car to them last Friday, collected the axel Saturday morning.

 

[IanV]

Spent the Saturday & Sunday stripping it down.
Only managed to shear one bolt on the disc shield.
But boy were the bolts tight! They were certainly not designed to be taken apart, all the nuts & bolts are assembled dry.
The brake pipes were a ****! Even having sprayed them with penetrant for a week every evening before it went to the garage.
All stripped down I took the axel to the grit blaster on Monday morning.

 

[IanV]

Whilst the axel was away, I removed the busted bolt from the hub & re-tapped the thread... that’s one evening gone.
I was going to strip down the hubs clean them up & paint them.
Unfortunately, the ABS sensors even though they were plastic were seized in solid.
Removing them would destroy them. Had a hunt on the web & found they were £60 each!
So in the end just gave everything a good clean up.
This will be a summertime project, easily done on the drive.

Friday, collected the axel & spent Friday evening & Saturday morning re-building the axel.

 

[IanV]

Axel is now back at the garage to be reinstalled with Eibach springs all round.
Springs were also corroded.
Koni Sports adjustables were already on the back - fitted them about a year ago to improve that awfull ride.
New Bilstien B8’s at the front (cant get Koni adjustables for the Panda anymore).
So we’ll see what the ride will be like now.
Having had a good look underneath, looks like the exhaust will be next.... job for next year.

 

[KungFooPanda]

That looks fab. It’s on my “To do” list this summer, along with changing all the shocks and springs.

 

[IanV]

Thanks. The grit blasting and repaint cost me £40, I was chuffed with that.
If you are going to do yours in the summer, I suggest you start squirting it every now & then with penetrant fluid.
Have a heat gun ready for the brake tubes.

 

[DaveMcT]

On mine the disc cover bolts sheared off so I've just not replaced them though could have drilled them out and and used nuts on the back. The ABS sensors thankfully came out ok, but again the screws could be easily retapped with axle off the car.

I had the whole axle grit blasted and zinc metal sprayed total cost £80. I chose to etch prime and black Hammerite on top but that was really not needed. Ive had stuff powder coated over the years and only one supplier could really cope with old rusty parts. Jobs done by everyone else have rusted through after a couple of years. I reasoned another £40 to rust proof it for ever was money well spent.

The brake pipes are plastic coated so any corrosion (and there will always be some) will jam the flare nuts and prevent any penetrating oil from doing its work. The fix was to cut the rubber brake hose and spin the fragment off the flare nut. Then heat the flare nut with a gas cooker lighter to soften the plastic coating. You can then clean away the aluminium clag and treat the bare metal with anti seize paste.

The standard 100HP axle uses two rubber hoses and a length of steel pipe that's seized at both ends. I went to HEL and had a 600mm hose made up with banjo on one end and male to suit the car's flare nuts on the other. I attached it to the axle with P clips and M5 cap screws but it could have been done with zip ties. HEL fitted three rubbing bobbins for the purpose at no extra cost. I paid £25 per hose for up to 1m length. However reseller prices vary so call the HEL factory in Exeter.

I put a smear of antiseize on the male threads (NOT ON THE PIPE END) as they are dissimilar metals. I don't want another jammed on flare nut.

The Fiat 500 axle fits the car. I have one on the 1.2 Dynamic, but its too wide for the 100HP wheels. An engineer could narrow the axle with some careful jigging, but its not a back street fix so not low cost. Used 500/Ford Ka/Panda 271 axles are much cheaper (and better condition) than used 169 Panda axles. They are 50mm wider, have an integral ARB and use softer springs.

It's a shame because the 1.2 Dynamic rides so much better than it did with the rock hard Panda axle. It shows as less body roll and wheels that don't skip over road bumps.

Before anyone steps in to say what a dangerous suggestion - I agree 100%. It would not be technically difficult for an engineer with the right tools but DIYers are 99.9% unlikely to have the necessary kit and experience to do it safely.

 

[Theleman]

Yes definitely looks like pro or highly experienced diyer job with hydrailic ramp or proper ramp pits?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yes definitely looks like pro or highly experienced diyer job with hydrailic ramp or proper ramp pits?

I can see that there might be the usual problems with rust when undoing brake pipes and other fitting (as have been mentioned). Experience always helps with this sort of thing but we all have to learn how to cope with corroded fixings and "just doing it" and making mistakes and breaking things is how most of us do it. I would view a job like this as an excellent opportunity to do a bit of refurbishing so I would be thinking of renewing brake pipes and flex hoses etc. The big advantage of this approach is you don't have to try to "save" anything - just cut it off!

Whilst there are advantages to having a ramp or pit, and I thought seriously about a pit many years ago but never dug one, working on axle stands actually has many advantages. Possibly the biggest one is that often you can manage something single handed with the aid of a trolley jack (or two). Try lifting out a gearbox (or that rear axle) on your own with the vehicle up on a ramp!

So I'd be very happy doing this sort of thing on axle stands in my drive. There's less people around to hear me swearing too!

 

[DaveMcT]

I have removed and replaced the back axles on both of our Pandas. The hardest job was getting the newly painted axle back under the car without gouging its new paint. Actually I lie, the metal brake pipes were also a pain until I realised they just need some gentle heat to soften the plastic sheath.

As Jock says, you are there to restore the axle so brake pipes are all going in the bin, except of course the front end which has to be re-used and can't be strained. I just cut the flex hose near the chassis and spun it off the seized flare nut. Gentle heat shifted the nuts so the rebuild was easy.

On one car I supported the body with axle stands under the rear sill jacking points. On the other, I use four axle stands, but this is not so easy to do as there's not enough places to jack the car from AND get the stands in place. Ramps at the front and stands at the back would be the best method.

The axle is retained by six bolts. That's it. They are easy to remove but of course you have to disconnect the brake pipes, hand brake, ABS wires and shock absorbers. So it's disconnect everything, put the trolley jack under the axle mid line and take the weight, take out the bolts and lower it down. Putting it back is literally the opposite but you will need help to get the bolts back in into place. It's best to leave the brakes off so there's less weight wobbling about.

Regards a garage pit... I built one and used it once or twice. Despite careful "tanking" it always had water in the bottom and it was just such a hassle to use - up down, up down, up down.... A two post lift would be far better and probably cost less. But you'd need a big drive as they go too high for any domestic garage.

 

[Theleman]

Now I have a car ramp which arrived from online seller. It was 30£ including delivery, and it looks solid. Added a pair of axle stands, so I have a lot more car tools than a few weeks ago.

A few days ago, i put my Panda on the ramp, and creeped under the car using the creeper seat, and looked up. It was not very comfortable and couldn't see much. I thoguht this is not going to work for me.

But maybe thats because it was my first time ever gone under the car on the creeper and the car on the diy ramps?

I think I could tacke oil and filter change, coolant drain flush and refill. And tyre changes, suspension repalcement and exhaust repair and repalcement, since I do have the basic tools now.

Axle works, I am not sure whats invloved. I will read the Haneys manual a few timesabout it first.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Now I have a car ramp which arrived from online seller. It was 30£ including delivery, and it looks solid. Added a pair of axle stands, so I have a lot more car tools than a few weeks ago.

A few days ago, i put my Panda on the ramp, and creeped under the car using the creeper seat, and looked up. It was not very comfortable and couldn't see much. I thoguht this is not going to work for me.

But maybe thats because it was my first time ever gone under the car on the creeper and the car on the diy ramps?

I think I could tacke oil and filter change, coolant drain flush and refill. And tyre changes, suspension repalcement and exhaust repair and repalcement, since I do have the basic tools now.

Axle works, I am not sure whats invloved. I will read the Haneys manual a few timesabout it first.

When you first start at this "game" it can all be a bit overwhelming Theleman but once you get used to it it's surprising what you can do. Getting the garage to do Becky's clutch the other day was the first time for many many years that any of our cars had been repaired by anyone other than myself. I suspect, sadly, that being as I'm 73 this year, it won't be the last!

I did myself once own a creeper. I found it reduced the room between me and the bottom of the car a little but mostly it's castor wheels never seemed to want to go in the same direction I was trying to go! In the end one of the wheels fell off and I turned it into a pot plant shelf. I have ever since just wriggled around on my back on the ground and I prefer to do this, however I don't think I would describe it as "comfortable".

You say also that you couldn't see very much and I'm wondering if this is because the car is not very far off the ground? Ramps and axle stands vary quite a bit and I have seen some very small ones on street market stalls etc. So here is a picture of my "helpers":



I have 3 sets of stands. The tallest - the yellow ones - are approx 550mm/22 inches tall and the two others are approx 520mm/20 inches. So that lets you get the chassis almost two feet off the ground if you really need to. Most of the time though I would be on the second or third hole and I find that gives me plenty of room for almost anything, including dropping a gearbox (in the past). Quite handily, if I'm doing an oil change, because my drive slopes up towards the house, I can reverse the car onto the drive, jack up the front and put the stands under the front only. This gives me room to drain oil and change filter etc, etc but still have the chassis level so I can accurately do the oil fill and check gearbox level. Very useful. You may notice the extended stands have wee blocks of wood on their tops? I always do this as it protects the paint finish on the chassis and, because the wood is relatively soft, it "bites in" and helps to stops the stand slipping.

I also have ramps which are about 9 inches high which means the chassis ends up around 450mm/18 inches above the ground:



I used to use the ramps quite a bit when I was younger but find them too restricting now. They get in the way if you want to take a wheel off or maneuver a jack under the car. So, most of the time they stand against the wall behind my trailer.

There is always the problem of how to jack the car up without causing damage to paint, underseal or panel distortion. Conveniently most manufacturers now reinforce areas of the sills (your manual will tell you where but usually there is an obvious mark on the sill to guide you). I have made up a couple of "pads" to use with the jacks so I can lift the cars on the sills without damage. Here's one:







If for some reason you can't jack on the sill you can go further under the car and jack on a box section or sub frame. I would caution you if doing this though as now a days the metal is nothing like as thick as it used to be and you might crush a box section. Same goes for sub frames which historically were massively overkill and you could jack away with gay abandon. Now? beware, it might bend!

 

[IanV]

Yes it is possible to do the work on axel stands, awkward, but even for an old krikley like me, its doable.
I was planning on doing it over a couple of weeks in the summer. Then this opertunity presented itself, couldn’t turn it down.

Now that the big job (axel) is out of the way, I can do the callipers, brackets, hubs at my leisure. The brake hoses, other than surface corrosion on the fittings were in very good condition. The brake pipes are coated in what looks like a polyurethane paint. They cleaned up like new (part numbers still visible).
However, corrosion had formed between the fittings and pipe cones.
Heat gun & penetrant fluid eventually eased them off. Reassembled with some zinc chromate jointing compound (between pipe & fitting) I had kicking around the garage.
Cars now ready for collection, just need to find some time to sneak off & get it.

 

[Theleman]

Great photos and great post Jock. Thanks.

Just noticed all of your stands have pin connection, which seem more secure. My stands are just pull out the top and tooth support type without the pins, hence its a bit scary in case something slips in the stands and might retract making car lowered abruptly.

And your red ramps are identical to mine. I measured the top of the ramp, and it was exact 25cm from the base so when the wheels are on top of them, the bottom of the car body has good gap between the ground.

I put the Panda on the ramp, and creeped under the car, and I think I was a bit apprehensive with the fear, it might come down on me. I think I am just a coward
I had a quick look at the car, and exited out immediately. But it was just to see how sturdy the ramp is, and it felt very solid.

I think with that and 2x axle stands, and I have ordered another set of 6tonne stands it will give me more assurance.

My creeper is quite nice in that it folds into a chair, so I can use to sit while working on other things too and stretch out and lock to make it into creeper to work on cars. The other day wife was using it as her chair to stitch something on her sewing machine.

Trolley jack wise. I got from Amazon for about 50quid and its 3tonne one, quite long and heavy, but the handle is thin and short. Havent used it yet. I know as you said that I must be careful where to put the trolley jack not to damage the bodywork.

I will have a good look at it when I use the jack to ensure do it properly.
I might order another trolley jack because I saw people working in cars have at least 2 trolley jack and use 1 to jack up the car and other to lift wheel bearings to insert suspensions etc. I will be making some cushion with either rubber or wood like your ones, great idea.

Yeah Maybe pits and pro hydraulic ramps are overkill for my level of work I will be doing. Although I would love to know and be able to work on more challenging works such as replacing clutches and axles. Youtube videos help a lot learning these things, and also info and advice from this forum is great.

But noticed most youtube videos dont cover my Panda model 1.1 Eco Active, thats a bummer.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Conveniently most manufacturers now reinforce areas of the sills (your manual will tell you where but usually there is an obvious mark on the sill to guide you).

I'm just wading through a nice plate of porridge - need to be strong today as we're collecting our 5 year old granddaughter from school this afternoon and taking her swimming. - and rereading this post. I noticed two interesting things; The Halfords sticker is still visible (and in good condition) on the yellow stands. I haven't noticed this when using them. Amazing after all these years!

More relevantly perhaps is that (with regard to the quote above) if you look at the first image (the one of all the stands together) just to the left of the nearest stand you can see the little inverted triangular mark on Becky's sill which marks the jacking point. (in fact the rear one is just visible too) I realize most of us will know this so apologies - I'm not trying to patronize you - but I thought there might be those reading who are not DIY car "nuts" like us?

PS. you have to enlarge the image a bit to see it well.

 

[DaveMcT]

The axle is quite heavy so a pair of axle stands and either solid wheels chocks (or better ramps) at the front really are the best way to do it. This gives enough space to access everything and the trolley jack can reach to lower the axle when you are ready to lift it down.

The only better option would be a garage lift and high lift transmission jack (like Edd China uses on Wheeler Dealers). Most of us are a long way from affording that sort of kit.

To jack the back just lift off the middle of the axle. Wooden protection (similar to Jock's sill pads) will make it easier. Get it as high as the jack allows then put stands under the sill jacking points with wooden pads.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Great photos and great post Jock. Thanks.

Just noticed all of your stands have pin connection, which seem more secure. My stands are just pull out the top and tooth support type without the pins, hence its a bit scary in case something slips in the stands and might retract making car lowered abruptly.

I put the Panda on the ramp, and creeped under the car, and I think I was a bit apprehensive with the fear, it might come down on me. I think I am just a coward
I had a quick look at the car, and exited out immediately. But it was just to see how sturdy the ramp is, and it felt very solid.

I think with that and 2x axle stands, and I have ordered another set of 6tonne stands it will give me more assurance.

My creeper is quite nice in that it folds into a chair, so I can use to sit while working on other things too and stretch out and lock to make it into creeper to work on cars. The other day wife was using it as her chair to stitch something on her sewing machine.

Trolley jack wise. I got from Amazon for about 50quid and its 3tonne one, quite long and heavy, but the handle is thin and short. Havent used it yet. I know as you said that I must be careful where to put the trolley jack not to damage the bodywork.

I will have a good look at it when I use the jack to ensure do it properly.
I might order another trolley jack because I saw people working in cars have at least 2 trolley jack and use 1 to jack up the car and other to lift wheel bearings to insert suspensions etc. I will be making some cushion with either rubber or wood like your ones, great idea.

Yes, the pins are a nice simple way of doing it. My friend in America has the type with the integral locks and he tells me it's possible to catch the lock on clothing or knock it with the jack (or by accident) with a hammer and then they might collapse?

Regarding you thinking you're a coward - No! just remember "the brave and foolhardy die young". I know exactly how you felt. I've had a car come off one of those "suicide", as I call them, jacks that are supplied with the car. Quite frightening and very difficult then to get something under the car to get it back up off the ground. Most frightening though was when a lift failed, back in the '70's when I was working at the Tyre and Auto garage. It was a single pillar hydraulic ram type and the main ram seal (I think) failed. The whole lift, complete with car on top, descended very rapidly back to the floor, with gallons of hydraulic oil spraying spectacularly all over the place! Luckily the chap working under it had gone to his workbench moments before this happened but it could have been very nasty. (I was taught in college that ramps have safety interlocks but this one collapsed all the same) The workshop was a typical American "bay" type with each bay having one of these lifts (there were 4) and a 4 poster (MOT) bench in the last one. (you could see the interlocks on the 4 poster on each leg! I know I had a good look!) There was floor space for a couple of cars at the back but realistically you had to work on a lift. I felt very nervous after that and luckily was offered a job elsewhere (back in Scotland) so I left soon after. So I know the feeling you are describing. On a nice stable bit of ground with the stands holding it is pretty safe though! - 6 tonne? maybe a bit "oversafe" though?

Your creeper sounds wonderful - I think it should have a built in cup holder for your tea cup?

Trolley jacks and how many? Never enough is probably the answer! It was probably 45 years ago I bought this chap:



The chassis is roughly 2 ft long and he has a nice largish diameter saddle size. Maximum lift is 16 inches (410mm). It was Hilka branded but I've since discovered it's made in China, but thats OK it lasted well until several years ago when it started to come back down very very slowly. Still usable but maybe not to be relied on. So I treated myself to a "proper big jack":



He can lift to 19 inches (485 mm) - 21 Inches (535 mm) with the rubber jacking pad instead of the metal saddle. It's been a really great jack and nowadays is my first "go to". I still was using the smaller one for support jobs and if I had to rush off across town to "rescue" one of the family with a puncture or whatever. but it worried me that it wasn't "holding" properly.

Then I spotted an almost identical modern version of him on my local Gumtree. It's the one behind That is to say, the red one:



You'll notice it's got "bits" missing. This is because it didn't take long to find fault with it. It's slightly, but significantly, higher and more bulky. But worst of all it's got quite a small saddle - more obvious if you enlarge the image - I was beginning to regret buying it (although, on Gumtree I only paid about half price for it) When I noticed the ram assembly looked very similar. Measured it all up and to all intents and purposes it's identical. Only red, ha ha! Bet it's the same factory still churning out these hydraulic parts. Anyway I switched over the hydraulic unit as a whole and my "old friend" was back in business.

.

Then, amazingly, about a month later, a chap who lives at the end of our street who I'm on "nodding" terms with, but don't "know", knocked on my door one night and said "I often see you working on your cars, would you like a jack" Not one to ever look gift horse in the mouth I said yes. Probably not going to be much use to me but I can always sell it on Gumtree or just get a couple of quid down at the scrappy. He turned up next day with this - the yellow and black one nearest the camera:



It's so near to being identical to my old Hilka that it must have been built in the same factory. A lot of the pins are welded in place whereas the old Hilka could come apart with circlips etc. It's like it came out the box yesterday! I felt so guilty I actually offered him money for it but he refused. He told me he'd bought it a few years ago for swapping round winter and summer tyres but the winter tyres had worn out quickly so he wasn't going to buy another set and had no more need for the jack.

So now I have 3 jacks and an almost new chassis sans hydraulics (don't know what to do with the chassis but it's got some nice thick plate and sturdy axles etc. Probably I'll cut it up to make brackets or something and maybe make punches out of the axles and pins? I hesitate to mention it, but I've also got a low entry 2 tonner - but I don't talk about that one in case Mrs Jock finds out I bought another jack!

 

[IanV]

So collected the car this morning & took it to work.
10 miles of motorway, 5 miles of country & 5 miles of urban roads.
Well, the ride was firm but softer - if that makes sense. It doesn’t crash over speed bumps as much as before. It’s been mentioned on here before, it could do with shorter bump stops or better still, an anti roll bar. I don’t think I’m going to mess about with the latter.
Also, steering felt lighter, (very subtle) possible because of a slight change in chamber due to the shorter springs.

 

[DaveMcT]

About 1cm lower is near enough the same in my book.

Rising rate springs are excellent. More compliant over rough surfaces but don't bounce and crash like softer springs can. It may soon feel less stiff as the dampers settle in but that's normal.

Others have suggested these work well on the 100HP -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAIR-of-Fiat-Coupe-Rear-Suspension-Bump-Stop-Bush-7782710-Brand-New-GENUINE/231811796377?fits=Car+Make%3AFiat%7CModel%3ACoupe&epid=1971344434&hash=item35f90f4d99:g:hdcAAOSwYIhWlSxy

 

[Theleman]

Yes, the pins are a nice simple way of doing it. My friend in America has the type with the integral locks and he tells me it's possible to catch the lock on clothing or knock it with the jack (or by accident) with a hammer and then they might collapse?

Regarding you thinking you're a coward - No! just remember "the brave and foolhardy die young". I know exactly how you felt. I've had a car come off one of those "suicide", as I call them, jacks that are supplied with the car. Quite frightening and very difficult then to get something under the car to get it back up off the ground. Most frightening though was when a lift failed, back in the '70's when I was working at the Tyre and Auto garage. It was a single pillar hydraulic ram type and the main ram seal (I think) failed. The whole lift, complete with car on top, descended very rapidly back to the floor, with gallons of hydraulic oil spraying spectacularly all over the place! Luckily the chap working under it had gone to his workbench moments before this happened but it could have been very nasty. (I was taught in college that ramps have safety interlocks but this one collapsed all the same) The workshop was a typical American "bay" type with each bay having one of these lifts (there were 4) and a 4 poster (MOT) bench in the last one. (you could see the interlocks on the 4 poster on each leg! I know I had a good look!) There was floor space for a couple of cars at the back but realistically you had to work on a lift. I felt very nervous after that and luckily was offered a job elsewhere (back in Scotland) so I left soon after. So I know the feeling you are describing. On a nice stable bit of ground with the stands holding it is pretty safe though! - 6 tonne? maybe a bit "oversafe" though?

Your creeper sounds wonderful - I think it should have a built in cup holder for your tea cup?

Trolley jacks and how many? Never enough is probably the answer! It was probably 45 years ago I bought this chap:

View attachment 198804

The chassis is roughly 2 ft long and he has a nice largish diameter saddle size. Maximum lift is 16 inches (410mm). It was Hilka branded but I've since discovered it's made in China, but thats OK it lasted well until several years ago when it started to come back down very very slowly. Still usable but maybe not to be relied on. So I treated myself to a "proper big jack":

View attachment 198806

He can lift to 19 inches (485 mm) - 21 Inches (535 mm) with the rubber jacking pad instead of the metal saddle. It's been a really great jack and nowadays is my first "go to". I still was using the smaller one for support jobs and if I had to rush off across town to "rescue" one of the family with a puncture or whatever. but it worried me that it wasn't "holding" properly.

Then I spotted an almost identical modern version of him on my local Gumtree. It's the one behind That is to say, the red one:

View attachment 198805

You'll notice it's got "bits" missing. This is because it didn't take long to find fault with it. It's slightly, but significantly, higher and more bulky. But worst of all it's got quite a small saddle - more obvious if you enlarge the image - I was beginning to regret buying it (although, on Gumtree I only paid about half price for it) When I noticed the ram assembly looked very similar. Measured it all up and to all intents and purposes it's identical. Only red, ha ha! Bet it's the same factory still churning out these hydraulic parts. Anyway I switched over the hydraulic unit as a whole and my "old friend" was back in business.

View attachment 198807.

Then, amazingly, about a month later, a chap who lives at the end of our street who I'm on "nodding" terms with, but don't "know", knocked on my door one night and said "I often see you working on your cars, would you like a jack" Not one to ever look gift horse in the mouth I said yes. Probably not going to be much use to me but I can always sell it on Gumtree or just get a couple of quid down at the scrappy. He turned up next day with this - the yellow and black one nearest the camera:

View attachment 198808

It's so near to being identical to my old Hilka that it must have been built in the same factory. A lot of the pins are welded in place whereas the old Hilka could come apart with circlips etc. It's like it came out the box yesterday! I felt so guilty I actually offered him money for it but he refused. He told me he'd bought it a few years ago for swapping round winter and summer tyres but the winter tyres had worn out quickly so he wasn't going to buy another set and had no more need for the jack.

So now I have 3 jacks and an almost new chassis sans hydraulics (don't know what to do with the chassis but it's got some nice thick plate and sturdy axles etc. Probably I'll cut it up to make brackets or something and maybe make punches out of the axles and pins? I hesitate to mention it, but I've also got a low entry 2 tonner - but I don't talk about that one in case Mrs Jock finds out I bought another jack!

It must have been quite a shock to see the lift ramp collapsing. That's scary.
I put the ramp on our driveway slabbed all along, and it must have been like that for over 50-60 years still with the original slabs, so it has some cracks, but still solid.

Yes, going under the car on creeper for the first time was a bit scary feeling. I also didn't like passers-by might looking at me on creeper underneath the car too. Maybe I will get used to it.

But 6 tonne axle stands were not too much more price than 3 tonnes ones, so I went for it, and they feel solid. So, I will put the front of the Panda to the ramp, and jack up the back of the Panda, and put 4x axle stands under it, and also trolley jack for further support. So it will give double and triple support at the back.

I also heard about the type of stands I have getting accidentally hit by hammer or clothes and collapsing - scary stuff. Must be super alert when under the car, I was thinking.

45 years the original trolley jack of yours lasted, that is really good, and it looks still fine.

Mine is from Amazon, and it is branded as "Lift Master". It goes up to 53cm and does 3 tonnes. Seems quite smooth and solid.

I saw a real nice trolley jack in Costco last weekend, and it was about £80. It had that long and thick metal pipe handle. Almost bought it, but we had too much shopping in the trolley, so didn't go for it. I will see which ones are best and do some research, but the Sealey ones seem nice.