Technical 1.9JTD engine runs but...

[kat7]

Hi All,
I have a real problem with my 2002 Marea weekend 1.9jtd.
The engine will start and run fine but it will cut out after about 30 seconds to a minute .....but sometimes runs for longer if driven on the road. As the engine cuts there is a 'Click' from the passenger footwell area .
.
Codes checked and NO faults are stored.....but the red injector light is on ALL the time on the dashboard.
.
When the OBD data is viewed in 'live' mode Both the IAT and the ETC are 215 Degrees Celsius with a ? next to them, which is a crazy reading
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what the fault might be ? I have just replaced the crankshaft position sensor with a new Bosch part and it has made no difference..
.
I have just disconnected the 4 wire plug to the coolant sensor and redone the scan......The electric cooling fans roared into life...but the ETC still reads 215 Degrees Celsius !!

 

[johnson550]

Have you done the easy things first fuel filter, disconect maf see what it runs like. I think there is a fuel cutoff in the passenger footwell for when the car is in a bump.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi All,
I have a real problem with my 2002 Marea weekend 1.9jtd.
The engine will start and run fine but it will cut out after about 30 seconds to a minute .....but sometimes runs for longer if driven on the road. As the engine cuts there is a 'Click' from the passenger footwell area .
.
Codes checked and NO faults are stored.....but the red injector light is on ALL the time on the dashboard.
.
When the OBD data is viewed in 'live' mode Both the IAT and the ETC are 215 Degrees Celsius with a ? next to them, which is a crazy reading
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what the fault might be ? I have just replaced the crankshaft position sensor with a new Bosch part and it has made no difference..
.
I have just disconnected the 4 wire plug to the coolant sensor and redone the scan......The electric cooling fans roared into life...but the ETC still reads 215 Degrees Celsius !!

hi,
a couple of basic questions to aid diagnosis,

does your YELLOW glow-plug symbol go out properly and not return ?,

a dead glow-plug coused this on our old 105, would cut @ 30 seconds after starting, set of new plugs fixed it,

with the fault = the glow-plug light would flash after the engine started , = then the engine would stop..:bang:

the fuel cut-off is under the seat i believe.!!,

however = under the dash area ( BEHIND the LHS glovebox on RHD UK models) is a large fusebox / board with lots of relays on , we had to go into this for a non-active immobiliser relay,

I hope that may help,
Charlie

 

[kat7]

Hi,
Thank you for the replies.
I have fitted a new fuel filter....but I have not tried the disconnected MAF so I will report back .
.
The yellow glow plug light does go out after a few seconds and does not relight.
The large red immobiliser relay behind the glove box has been swapped out for another brown one but I will replace it with a proper red one and report back.
.
Its the temperature readings when I 'scan the codes' that worry me ..ETC and AIT both at 215 Degrees Celcius......could it be a broken ECU ?
.
Hi,
I have disconnected the MAF and started her up ....... Red fuel injector light still remained on and the engine still cut out after about 30 seconds with the 'click' from the passenger footwell area .
OBD code read showed NO codes stored which is odd with the MAF disconnected and BOTH the IAT and the ETC still showed 215 Degrees Celsius........
.
So with the IAT sensor now disconnected and both temps still at 215 degrees.... ........Is it a Faulty ECU ??
(MAP is also at 255 which is at the top of the OBD scale and is 2.5 atmospheric pressure !!)

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi , post again in the Bravo/a section , as far more traffic in there..,
somebody there may know more of this ussue,
good luck / bon chance,
charlie

 

[kat7]

Hi Charle, Thanks for the advice.... I have posted the question in that section and see if anyone there can help.
It is really frustrating that there are no fault codes recorded.....I thought that computers made it easier not more difficult...... I really do not know what to do next ,its a lovely car ?

 

[franglais]

The JTD has been used in many different applications, there will be somebody who has had the same problems as you are having, it may be that you need to look in other forums concurently. have a look through this list for other ideas of where to look for information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JTD_engine#1.9
hope you get it sorted, and please post back with any solutions you come across.
thanks

 

[kat7]

Hi franglais,
Thank You very much for the advice.
Just bought a new cam position sensor to fit and I can assure you that I will update the forum with any solutions that come to light. I really want to save this car if at all possible

 

[tinytim]

Are you sure you are using the right code reader/setting for your engine?
If the ECU is being informed (even wrongly) of high engine temperature it will cut the engine to protect it.
Check the output from the engine temperature sensor or replace......

 

[kat7]

Hi tinytim,
The code reader is meant to be fully compatible with the car and it does seem to work.... ( V gate scan VS 600) its just odd that there are no codes stored or pending .....
.
....but the IAT ( Inlet Air Temperature ?) and the ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature ?)are both at the top of the scale at 215 Degrees Celsius ...and they do not change if I disconnect the sensors.... but they are not triggering a code to be stored
.....it makes no sense that BOTH the temperature sensors have gone defective at the same time...........and would either or both of those being faulty trigger the red injector warning light ??
.
So broken earth wire(s) to the block... Where do I look ??.......Or broken ECU

 

[varesecrazy]

ok - the fact that the ECU thinks the car is over TEMP , and is shutting the motor off is quite plausible,

did you get to the Fuse board and decide which relay is doing the "CLICK" when the engine is shut-off..??,
this may give some clue as to which componentry circuit is misbehaving..,

also has there been a slow creeping in of this fault, or did it just happen overnight - any recent work done..??,

Charlie

 

[kat7]

Hi Charlie,
Good Idea !! I will get the wife to start the car and listen to see where the clicking is coming from ..
I had presumed that it was the actual ECU itself but it seems more probable that it is an external relay. I have found the relays behind the glovebox and I will see if I can find anymore that might 'clicking' and causing the fault.
.
The problem started with the red injector light coming on and the car losing power as if the turbo was not working...then the fault would clear a puff of black smoke out of the exhaust and it was back to full power. The fault quickly became more frequent over a day and now the light is permanently on and the car will not run for more than 30 seconds.
.
Does anyone know where the 'earth wires' from the block actually go.

 

[johnson550]

Have you done anything with EGR cleaned it out or blanked it off the car dosent need it and causes problems like youre having when it goes wrong. If youre not using http://www.multiecuscan.net/ I suggest you give it a go its brilliant and free.

 

[shaun6017]

Have you done anything with EGR cleaned it out or blanked it off the car dosent need it and causes problems like youre having when it goes wrong. If youre not using http://www.multiecuscan.net/ I suggest you give it a go its brilliant and free.

How do use this on the car wot leads do u need please

 

[johnson550]

All the instructions are on there to see you need a laptop and an ELM327 interface which you can buy on ebay something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELM-327-1...iagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3385bef9b8 I say like this cause all of them are not what they seem to be I cant guarantee this particular one will work.

 

[varesecrazy]

Have you done anything with EGR cleaned it out or blanked it off the car dosent need it and causes problems like youre having when it goes wrong. If youre not using http://www.multiecuscan.net/ I suggest you give it a go its brilliant and free.

good point,
I'm just a little surprised the fault went from "happened once or twice" to cant run for 30 seconds now,

what spec is your "breathed on Marea", was it badged a 110

Charlie

 

[kat7]

Hi Charlie,
I was surprised at how suddenly the 'fault ' managed to effectively stop the car! The last journey home was a series of 'stop and starts' ..........
Its not 'breathed on' in any way...Its a bog standard Fiat Marea Weekend, one of the last bought direct from a dealer in 2002. Its the only new car that we have ever had, back when my wife had a good job.
.
This Fiat 'Multiecuscan' sounds to be worth a try. I can borrow a lap top and will get the lead to connect it to the OBD.....It will probably take a week or two but it will be worth it to 'Save' the Fiat ! .........Its a great car and the wife loves it .
.
I will clean out the EGR, but its seems odd that the damn thing can 'stop' the engine...I thought that they only operated at lower engine speeds and caused rough running when they failed ??

 

[varesecrazy]

sorry - the "breathed on " question was regarding the other guys @170 BHP marea,

just wondering if his was initially the nearest SPEC to yours, he MAY be able to offer more help than me ( merely owning a similar car - 105 JTD - years ago..),

Charlie

 

[kat7]

Hi Charlie,
I have cleaned the EGR and the MAP sensor at the same time since it was easy to get to ( I know never make 2 changes at once )...BUT..The red Injector light is GONE and the engine ran great for about 20 minutes reved and ran PERFECTLY up to temperature fans on and off all great ...BUT....
.
Suddenly the engine died...I started it again and listened and 'click' the engine died again......its this BLACK 20 Amp relay here (one of 2 inside the glovebox ) that just clicks off and the engines stops.The other red one is the main immobiliser powered relay at 30 Amps.
.
I have replaced the relay with 2 other second hand ones but it made no difference and after a few minutes it still just clicks and the engine dies. The time that the engine would run for got less and less with each test.
.
I even simply 'Bridged' this relay with a piece of wire which makes the electric fuel pump run without the ignition being on and connected a relay to join the two signal wires.....but after 20 seconds the relay clicks and the engine dies ( still with the fuel pump running ).
Obviously the main part of the relay operates the electric fuel pump...
.
Does anyone have any ideas where this relay is actually powered from and what else its powering wires might operate ?

 

[johnson550]

Mine is the 110 or rather was but like you said two things at once. ii Fi was you I would blank the egr off any old bit of tin will do to try it. I went out to my car one day after it had been cleaned and it wouldnt start tried putting a blank plate over the pipe and its ran great since about two year now.