Technical 1.9 m/j stutter and wosh noise at 1800 rpm

[tarquin1867]

AH HA!!!
Just been out to my 16v and can see what your problem is. Mine is misted as well and its obvious where its coming from, its just below and to one side of the engine oil dipstick. This has two O ring type seals to keep it in position as it has a "mushroom" type top in yellow plastic . Its quite possible that the crankcase gases are escaping a little and causing the misting.

Its very difficult to see the other pipe you seem to have a "hole" in but mine seems to be just as the one in the diagram and if it had the hole there would be a lot of noise.

 

[1fiatfan]

The small pipe in the middle of the 1st pic is the pipe that to me looks odd, maybe yours has a yellow muchroom top, but there is no yellow mushroom top on mine. I am going to either get the injectors swapped over or their positions corrected on a paid for version of ECU scan, but I also want to check what I can as I still think the air escaping noise is being caused by air escaping from where is should'nt. The 1st below pic shows my open ended pipe !

 

[tarquin1867]

Sorry if I didnt make it clear, the yellow "mushroom" is the top of the dipstick in your photo 2 it can allow some oily gases to escape during running and spray the pipe with it which is just below it --nothing at all to worry about
Photo 1 however -- you have a missing pipe altogether. its not shown on your original exploded view but I will try and look up where it goes to later this evening and post a pic. . It is def the cause of your loud noise "swoosh"as the air system is open to the world!!! the poor old ECU wont know if its coming or going.

 

[1fiatfan]

Thx Tarquin, I really appreciate your help. Is this the correct pipe showing the missing long piece, if so where does this long piece go too?

 

[tarquin1867]

The pic you provided looks like the right part but all you will need is the small rubber pipe hiding away under the big one it joins a metal pipe with brackets on where it goes across or round the engine then joins onto the engine round the back. Not sure what it does but is some part of the crankcase breathing system.
If you say the car was fine when you got it , the pipe may have blown off , its unlikely to have blown off both ends so the pie may be hanging from the other end where you can`t see it and may just need resetting with a new jubilee clip. If its missing altogether it may have been removed during other work and not replaced.

 

[tarquin1867]

Well I made a right cock up with trying to upload a scan off E-Learn can the mods fettle it for me. The pipe is part of the crankcase breather I think and may be hanging from the other end clip on the steel pipe, worth investigation?

If its missing get onto the dealer or the last bloke who worked on the car, he may have the pipe on his bench wondering where it came from

 

[1fiatfan]

I had a good look around the engine bay for a hanging or disconnected pipe to fit back onto the end of this open ended pipe, but I cant find one. I will get back onto the mechanic who replaced the intercooler to see what he says. T.B.H. I have no faith in garages and i think between us on here we know more about Croma's than most so called expert mechanic's who have never seen a Croma before. Being the same as Vectra engine I am amazed that the mechanic did not spot this open ended pipe.:bang:

 

[1fiatfan]

Guy at the garage said that the missing pipe disintergrated when they removed it to replace the intercooler and so they could not fit it back on, he also said it was a drain pipe that runs to the bottom of the air box and it has no effect of the running of the car . I am still surprised he did not tell me about this when they replaced the intercooler.

 

[tarquin1867]

Guy at the garage said that the missing pipe disintergrated when they removed it to replace the intercooler and so they could not fit it back on, he also said it was a drain pipe that runs to the bottom of the air box and it has no effect of the running of the car . I am still surprised he did not tell me about this when they replaced the intercooler.

What a crock of sh*te he told you. He has been found out, and he is coming up with a dell boy excuse to fob you off. Its almost as bad as the dead parrot sketch!!!
The big pipe is on the air intake between the MAF sensor and the turbo inlet. The engine ECU takes the reading from the MAF and decides how much fuel to use in the engine along with all the other parameters it measures. You can imagine what has been happening when straight after the MAF there is a big influx of air ! couple this with the injectors being put back in the wrong order the poor ECU does not know if its on its ar*e or its elbow!!!.
I have also found in my Fiat training manual that the code on the top of the injectors "must be stored in the ECU using an examiner after any of them are replaced". This would concur with further up the thread- sounds just like someone has had them out and not put them back in the right order- adding to the probs for the poor old ECU

 

[tarquin1867]

PS-- Take a look at the picture you posted of tyhe second hand one you found, and ask yourself why would it need to be so long and circuitous if it is supposed to go to the bottom of the air filter box? A distance of at most 12" !!!

As I said the dead parrot sketch

 

[1fiatfan]

I have just had another look under the bonnet and I dont think the picture of the used pipe I posted on here is the missing pipe on my car. My MAF to turbo inlet pipe does have the long piece going to the back of the engine, it comes off the pipe that goes through the MAF and to the turbo inlet.

 

[tarquin1867]

I will go out and have another ferret around mine when it stops raining cats and dogs . This is getting under my skin good and proper as I have been in your position in the distant past . The worst part is the mistaken feeling its your fault when you know its not!!

 

[tarquin1867]

Right now we are getting somewhere !?? I can see on my car your missing tube, it comes off the intercooler pipe (which has the misting on the top of it) and curls round and goes underneath the engine side of the air filter body but I cannot see (or feel) where it goes to. It may indeed go into the air filter body but I cannot remember if there is a hole in the outside casing for it to join onto as it was last autumn when I cleaned the K&N filter I have in there.
If it does I cannot understand why a sealed system like the intercooler would have a "drain"to the dirty side of the air filter it could lead to allsorts getting into the air system.
One thing is for certain, the car will be better off with it than without it no matter what the garage said. This whole episode is bizarre

 

[1fiatfan]

So I am told by the Fiat dealer the missing pipe should be shown here if it runs to the air box, but I am not sure. Also has anyone already got the paid for version of ECU scan anywhere near to Kingswinford in the West Mids? I have already spent so much I dont want to pay the 50 euro to upgrade mine so that I can change the settings for the injectors

 

[tarquin1867]

So I am told by the Fiat dealer the missing pipe should be shown here if it runs to the air box, but I am not sure. Also has anyone already got the paid for version of ECU scan anywhere near to Kingswinford in the West Mids? I have already spent so much I dont want to pay the 50 euro to upgrade mine so that I can change the settings for the injectors

I reckon this diagram is for a different engine - the tube leaving the MAF on ours is corrugated, this one is an elbow. Might be for a new Bravo with the same engine ??
That notwithstanding the missing pipe is shown in faint coming from the RH front bottom corner of the air filter box, ending in a sort of rubber Tee piece with one open end which goes on the pipe in your photos` the other end of the Tee is blocked off. I wont stake money on it but it cant go into the air box on my car as I can get my hand onto that corner and it goes further back.

 

[1fiatfan]

Just been to the local Fiat dealer and their mechanic had a quick look, he said the missing bit of pipe is only an air box drain pipe so that if water gets into the airbox it can drain out. He said it does'nt affect the running of the car at all. His opinion is its still likely to be a faulty EGR valve as he said that he has known brand new EGR valves be faulty. He suggested I block the EGR completely at the inlet pipe and see what happens, it will put engine m/ment light on, but if it stops the stutter and woosh noise then its a faultly EGR valve.

 

[tarquin1867]

How about this for a plan:-
1-Take the top off the air filter body and take out the air filter.
2- Hoover out the debris that is in the dirty side at the bottom.
3- Get a couple of wine bottle corks and shape to fit any hole you find in the bottom of the air filter body and shape the other to jam in the top of the open ended pipe.
4- Put some electricians tape over the top to keep it in and wrap some more round the pipe to act as belt and braces.
5- Refit the air filter and top.
6 - Start the car and if the Whoosh has gone it must be the pipe thats causing it.

I have found that its always better to rule out the little (cheap) things first before going for the expensive things. Dont forget as well , not many Fiat dealer mechanics will have seen a croma let alone worked on one.
Its also an opinion of mine that the training of car mechanics is way behind the technology "improvements" that the modern day cars present themselves with to the mechanics.
Witness--"Cant have a look at it till our computer whizz kid is back from college on Friday"
Ring any bells?

 

[buster]

Ive got the paid for version of ECU scan,im very close to stoke.Ive got a new genuine EGR that you could try if you wanted.

 

[buster]

Hey ive just thought have you checked the downpipe flexi.Mine done this and i was convinced it was a boost leak.Bloody flexi had split.

 

[1fiatfan]

Thank you both for your posts, and Buster thank you for your kind offer, I might be taking you up on that at this rate. The exhaust flexi has already been replaced and no part of the whole system is blowing.

This evening I have removed the airbox and blanked off the hole in it where the drain pipe is missing. I also blanked off the open ended drain pipe below, result is no difference at all. Airbox was already clean as I hoovered it out and replaced the air filter a few weeks ago. Even though I was told the EGR valve was replaced before I bought the car I am going to either blank it off totally where the feed pipe enters it, or try replacing it.