Technical 1.6 stalling after cold start

[suzukib]

Hello gentlemen, just an update. Im still waiting for the new MAP sensor to be delivered. the current state of affairs is:

car no longer likes ticking over, any given chance it will die again
the third brand new exhaust is blowing again
the front exhaust mounts need replacing (garage who fitted exhaust have said, and exhaust now rattles on car body when it goes to die...are these the round rubber bits?)
blipping the throttle (forgive the bike term) now isnt as effective as it seems to "bog down" when you try and catch the revs so she doesnt stall!

so i prey to god this map sensor sorts her out. if not any more ideas??

Hope you all had a good xmas and here's to a "happy" new year :slayer:

 

[Deckchair5]

A blowing exhaust pre cat will wreck the chances of a tickover as the lambda sensor will be giving all the wrong info to the ECU so that's a high priority needs to be fixed item. It will also give awful fuel consumption

 

[suzukib]

i dont think its blowing from the cat/downpipes or at least i cant hear it when in engine bay. the sound is like a mid section/backbox blow! its the third system from cat back all of which were brand new!!!

im loosing faith in my mini beast

 

[Deckchair5]

That's very odd. Mine is still on its original exhaust so that's a staggering 7 years old now. Why were your exhausts changed? All blowing or are you running on Nitro?

 

[suzukib]

well it started to blow at the flexi joint so the mid section was changed.....then is started blowing again 2 weeks later......then the back box went...now 2 weeks later that is blowing again. i have been told it needs new front midsection mounts now i believe they are two round rubber bits?

still waiting for the new map sensor, mot is up next month (feb 2010) and the car will fail as its still "broken" i need the car for work as i work 20 miles away from my address!

i was thinking would it be possible the timing is out? as it seems like a missfire on tickover! performance when driving is normal its just it refuses to idle. Getting really annoyed with it at the min :bang:

 

[suzukib]

forgot to add the car is completly standard.

 

[ROWENA]

Love the colour coded magic tree

 

[suzukib]

hahahahaha it had to be done! plus i like manilla...abit like vanilla but manly

 

[suzukib]

right, shiney new map sensor has been fitted...............NO CHANGE. i havent had the fault codes cleared yet...would this effect it? also i myt move into checking the injectors now and if its not them its the timing. its holds a lovely puuurrrrr tickover when its freezing cold outside, but as soon as the engine gets up to temp i.e half way on temp guage thats when it thinks its a diesel!

im at my wits end with this now. im off to fiat to get some new front exhaust mounts. its rather icey outside so i may have to slide into a wall and get a new one! (jokes )

and if its not any of the above its definatly got 2 personalities! :devil:

 

[Deckchair5]

i havent had the fault codes cleared yet...would this effect it?
Yes you'll need to clear the fault codes before it will accept the new MAP sensor as OK.

also i myt move into checking the injectors now and if its not them its the timing.
I wouldn't, if it's ticking over fine at start up then the injectors won't suddenly change

if its not them its the timing.
timing is done purely by the ecu so there is no "timing" to do and it can't be adjusted

its holds a lovely puuurrrrr tickover when its freezing cold outside, but as soon as the engine gets up to temp i.e half way on temp guage thats when it thinks its a diesel!
Well that's new information. Depends how long you mean from start up but when it first starts-cold engine-it's in "open loop" and ignores things like the lambda sensor but after a short while- a minute or two- it goes into "closed loop" where it uses feedback from the lambda sensor to adjust fuel/timing to achieve a good tickover but, for instance, an exhaust blow pre cat will blow the lambda O2 readings to pot.

Would be nice to see your pre-cat lambda readings at tickover. Best is with graphical diagnostic program but you can check it out perfectly well with a multimeter and a back probe of cut down acupuncture needles

 

[suzukib]

ok cool, so i will back probe the lambda for you (once i figure out how to use the multi-meter ) and post the results tomorrow! it doesnt matter how long the journey is but as soon as temp gets near half way the problems start. (i assume when the auto choke stops)

today has brought a new problem:bang: when driving over small bumps i have a rattle from the nearside front suspension, almost like there are a set of loose spanners in the glove box. im going to take the wheel off tomorrow and check the pads for play (not foreplay) and after a quick search i believe it could also be the drop links! fookin car is falling to bits. oh and the rear suspension is starting to talk. i may aswell build the car again from scratch with new parts at this rate. i had so many plans for the girl that she is ruining....and ruining me finanicialy. i tried going over bumps when breaking but the noise continued. also if you apply a firm break you can feel a knock kinf of thing through the pedal!!!!!!

 

[Deckchair5]

pre cat lambda should oscillate between around 0.15v and 0.8v almost every second at tickover
(Don't just buy a new one if it doesn't, it may be quite correctly stating the air/fuel mix is wrong)


It should look similar to this top trace on tickover

With your knocking then if it doesn't stop when you apply the brakes then it isnt loose pads. They rattle on bumpy surfaces but stop as soon as you apply the brakes

It more often is anti roll bar links (drop links) but you won't feel those through the brake pedal normally. They knock quite lightly on rough surfaces more inboard towards the centre of the car

Another related sensor I'd be checking out is your engine temp sensor and its connector, particularly as your problem now seems engine temp related

 

[850kd]

Could that 'loose spanner noise' be bits of broken spring.? Thats just what mine sounded like when about a quarter turn broke and was caught in the spring-catcher. Drop links sound quite different - more like a clunking than a rattle.

 

[suzukib]

10 points for 850kd. it is indeed a snapped spring! the love hate relationship between me and this car has indeed today turned to hate! :devil:

fault codes have been removed and ecu is now clear of that stupid light. she still chugs like a diesel, so im going to look at a vacum leak...when it stops bloody snowing out side! i assume i just spray the hoses with wd40 for example and listen for a change in revs? at least thats what i did on my bikes and it seemed to work......once ;-)

thanks all for your help, this is a stereotypical fiat im affraid...fix it again tomorrow:bang: im currently going through a divorce and the solicitors have a tap on my wallet, now so does the car and im left with nothing. think i may walk the 20 miles to work

 

[ROWENA]

Sorry to hear about your divorce suzukib, I have had 2 terrible mariages unfortunately my first wife died, and my second one wont

:devil:

 

[suzukib]

i know marriage is a pain in the arse.....even more so when it comes to an end! sorry to hear of your loss mate......and your not so!

 

[suzukib]

ok so just an update really. i have driven the car some 200 miles and there is still no engine fault light or beeps thank god, but the problem with the idle is still there. i have noticed when the temp gauge reads just before half way the idle problems start. the revs are really up and down, like between 200-1000rpm. the car hasnt stalled when driving so thats always a good thing, but its just this damn idle i need to sort.

i sprayed all the pipes/hoses in the engine bay to see if there would be a change in the revs but there wasnt. the car will sit revving itself unless i keep a steady idle with the accelerator. also there is a slight "belt squeak" upon start up and sometimes she kangaroo's when first pulling away, and it feels like it bogs down/looses power power pulses when driving for first 5 mins.

Fart...sorry fiat have said they wont look at it until a fault code has been registered. they keep saying "i havent heard of a throttle/ecu update" or "it would have been done sir" so there a waste of my pissing time.

cheers for any and all advice so far!
Mike

 

[Deckchair5]

Puzzling

Do you have a laptop? If so then I'd get something like Gendan software and a usb diagnostic connection to your car so you can see what's going on with everything at tickover.

Thoughts are maybe engine temp sensor as it's a temp related problem but you seem to be getting the correct and normal dashboard eng temp display although this info is CAN fed up to the dash display. You could do a simple check and check the resistance the ETS is giving compared to ground against this chart for different temps. Maybe try when engine's cold and when it's hot


Even better though is to see what engine temp info the ECU is getting and working on.

Just before temp gets to half way is maybe when it's going into closed loop ie using feedback from sensors to fine tune tickover rather than guessing (although I'd expect it to go into closed loop before then). Again you'd see this with a more graphic diagnostics program

200-1000rpm is a huge amount so it's really struggling to hold any kind of tickover

 

[suzukib]

Re: 1.6 stalling after cold start ***sorted***

long time no speak, i have been lurking around. so some infor really... i had my cam belt changed 7 days ago and the cars tickover is perfect. sits at 900rpm no matter what temp the engine is! so im very happy to have my smooth baby back and i now love the car again! so i dont know if it was a combination of all the parts that i have changed or whether or not it just needed the cam belt doing. a list of parts i changed to get her perfect again is as follows:

1, Battery
2, Plugs
3, Coil packs
4, Pre cat Lambda
5, 2x Bottle of redx
6, Air filter (OEM & K&n..now running k&n)
7, Cam belt

result, silky smooth tickover...........things to do, replace front coil spring, sort out the blowing exhaust...again:bang: and 2 new tyres and she's all good! thinking of lowering it if the price is right

thanks all for your help! :slayer:

 

[Deckchair5]

That's really good that you have a tickover back as there's nothing worse than an engine dying all the time. But 900rpm isn't a tickover speed, a 1.6 should be around 700rpm with aircon off, around 800rpm with it switched on.

It may settle down as it relearns the best settings but with an exhaust leak, if it's pre cat, then it doesn't stand much chance

For the car to respond so much better after a cambelt change then something would have been wrong with the way the cam timing was previously set up. Had it had a cambelt change prior to you buying it?