:wave: yes its my daily now, sold the van and the GT isn't road legal. Yes my crappy mf2 setup still works fine. I never gonna try argue its a good setup but it worksHoneymonster said:
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Tuning 1.2 8v cinq info ?
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HONEY MONSTER im going to go with rebuilding my engine for a turbo but im not looking for mad horse power what i like about this project is that iv see only one turbo cinq so fare in ireland and i have my ressons why i want to do this car but the problem i have is the forged parts and where to get them because price is not a problem i will spend what is nessasery to spend to get forged parts for the engine
if i take all the inturnals out of a 1.2 16v and put them into a 1.2 8v will they be able for the power of the turbo ?
it would be easyer if i had a less of parts lol
if i take all the inturnals out of a 1.2 16v and put them into a 1.2 8v will they be able for the power of the turbo ?
it would be easyer if i had a less of parts lol
simply put.. yes
my turbo has stock internals with the original pistons machined down to lower CR. Car has been high boost from new and just clocked 41k miles. Been a reliable car, its no monster but is nippy enough and great fun. My old cinq turbo was a turbo most of its life on totally stock internals and decomp plate.
The easiest way to make one though would probably be to take a 1242 16v bottom end and then bolt on a punto75 head and inlet etc... Job done, no messing about changing pistons and rods etc etc. But you do really need a know good engine to do that without rebuilding it all just to make sure. But yes a 1.2 8v bottom end mated to 1.2 16v pistons basically makes the same thing. Basically any combo of 1.2 8v and 16v block and internals as long as you got the 16v pistons in there will work, i wouldn't worry exactly what combo, especially if your not intending to build an all out beast turbo engine.
I'm waiting patiently for honeymonster to get his car done as i'm interested in how this det3 thingy he has performs.
my turbo has stock internals with the original pistons machined down to lower CR. Car has been high boost from new and just clocked 41k miles. Been a reliable car, its no monster but is nippy enough and great fun. My old cinq turbo was a turbo most of its life on totally stock internals and decomp plate.
The easiest way to make one though would probably be to take a 1242 16v bottom end and then bolt on a punto75 head and inlet etc... Job done, no messing about changing pistons and rods etc etc. But you do really need a know good engine to do that without rebuilding it all just to make sure. But yes a 1.2 8v bottom end mated to 1.2 16v pistons basically makes the same thing. Basically any combo of 1.2 8v and 16v block and internals as long as you got the 16v pistons in there will work, i wouldn't worry exactly what combo, especially if your not intending to build an all out beast turbo engine.
I'm waiting patiently for honeymonster to get his car done as i'm interested in how this det3 thingy he has performs.
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Should be fine for 115 - 120 bhp with that set up and an aftermarket ECU.
After that, go forged. Fair few companies will do rods and pistons to your spec., prices vary, but a fair few advertise in PPC magazine (ASDA, etc.). If I were going that route, I'd get forged rods a few mm shorter than stock so I could get pistons with wider ring lands.
After that, go forged. Fair few companies will do rods and pistons to your spec., prices vary, but a fair few advertise in PPC magazine (ASDA, etc.). If I were going that route, I'd get forged rods a few mm shorter than stock so I could get pistons with wider ring lands.
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im trying try to get more then just 120hp my range is 150 - 170 or 180.
thats why i want to fully forge my engine but before i start i want to find somewere i cn buy these parts because no one has told me yet and that is what im asking help for
DOSE ANYONE NO WERE I CAN BUY FORGED PARTS FOR MY 1.2 8V ENGINE ?(if will be a turbo engine)
If you really want that much power, go T Jet.
a. It's been done.
b. It's reliable and -- at least up to 160bhp -- can be used to do the shopping (etc.)
c. The 16 valve engine breathes much better than the 8 valve (which is why just about every Japanese turbo engine is 16v -- ultimately it'll make more power.
For rods, Carillo, but doing a Google for "forged conrods" will throw up others
For pistons, Ross, Wiseco, Venolia, again, a search will throw up more. Expect to be doing some of the design work yourself.
Tell them it's for a turbo engine (especially the piston manufacturers).
Some places will make batches of 4, others want a larger order.
If you're expecting over the counter stuff, you're living in FIAT utopia, not Eire.
But, in the meantime, a websearch did throw up these.
a. It's been done.
b. It's reliable and -- at least up to 160bhp -- can be used to do the shopping (etc.)
c. The 16 valve engine breathes much better than the 8 valve (which is why just about every Japanese turbo engine is 16v -- ultimately it'll make more power.
For rods, Carillo, but doing a Google for "forged conrods" will throw up others
For pistons, Ross, Wiseco, Venolia, again, a search will throw up more. Expect to be doing some of the design work yourself.
Tell them it's for a turbo engine (especially the piston manufacturers).
Some places will make batches of 4, others want a larger order.
If you're expecting over the counter stuff, you're living in FIAT utopia, not Eire.
But, in the meantime, a websearch did throw up these.
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It will make more power but have less torque at lower rpm unless you have some kind of variable valve timing actually. Pre VVT Porsche used to race 8v turbo engines for their increased reliability (less valves) and more useful power at low rpms.
Obviously once VVT appeared all that changed...
16v engines flow much better at high rpm and essentially move the power band too.
Of course the FIRE 8v was never designed to be turbocharged and the Tjet was so it will be optimised far better in many ways. Also I think If you were really going mad on an 8v turbo the 1.1 is a better option due to its shorter stroke (more revvy, less stress on the crank), however it unfortunately doesn't have the piston squirters...
Also people have managed 130+hp reliably without any issues. Tricker managed it with a far less sophisticated management system than most use now many moons ago. This is especially possible if you run duel maps and have closed loop boost control.
If you want 200 hp go for a Tjet though, that's a crazy expectation from a reliable 1.2!
You mean that buggy piggyback thing that will never work..
The only thing that will change is adding a boost solenoid and then altering the map to suit. The DET has been running the engine for months perfectly I use the car nearly every day. It's supplying the timing and the fueling with complete and accurate adjustment including warm up enrichment and all the essential bells and whistles to tune an engine. What is left to prove??
However, yes I need to pull my finger out and get the car done before it starts to get really cold.
As for forged pistons...
When I said pistons before I of course meant pistons and rods, who an earth would run forged pistons with standard rods. :nutter:
But essentially for 150hp reliable for regular use I'd say some good flow work, balancing and high build tolerances with forged pistons and rods, the right sized turbo, a well designed exhaust and inlet manifold, and finally well set up management wouldn't be a huge problem unless you ragged it constantly.
However finding the right bits is of course is going to be the real problem as you may have already noticed. None of this stuff is off the shelf, you need to work out what you need then either make it yourself or get people to make it. Then pay to have stuff balanced and flowed or attempt an amateur job yourself.
Really if you want 150bhp plus you'd be silly not to consider the Tjet. It's all there done for you.
The task of fitting it still won't be simple though, nor will wiring it and setting up the management. You'd still need to do this on an 8v regardless though.
There are easy cars to buy bits for and do good turbo swaps on, the Cento isn't one of them.
If you want forged bits and turbo kits off the shelf buy something more popular, otherwise be prepared to spend a lot of time, money and do a serious amount of research to achieve what you want.
For research there a plenty of good threads on Fiat forum and smokeme's website has some really useful information. Other than that you'll need to read lots of material that's not specific to Fiats to be able to work out the specifications of what you need and want.
They were also pretty much without competition at the time.................
In F1, and in "real" sportscar racing, it was 4 valves from the start. Porsche were also about the last performance car manufacturer to introduce disk brakes "we do not build mere airport racers!". :bang:
Of course, Turbo Cinqs don't need more low down torque (it unsettles them badly and fubars the clutches), but nice flat curves with lots of area beneath them.
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how much did you take off your pistons and what thickness was your de compression plate ???????
and can you put both the pistons machined down and the plate or should i do just one of them ??????
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would this fit into a 1.2 8v engine there forged pistons and rods out of a gt punto 1.4
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Punt...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item29ef457c40
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Punt...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item29ef457c40
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No. Different engine family altogether.
As I say, there's nothing available over the counter.
You'll never get remotely near 200bhp with stock rods and pistons (well, for a few seconds, maybe).
As I say, there's nothing available over the counter.
You'll never get remotely near 200bhp with stock rods and pistons (well, for a few seconds, maybe).
in both instances the CR is was lowered to 8.5:1 - could tell you measurements though i'm afraid. 1242 8v with 16v pistons etc gives a CR or 7.8:1 so is better suited for running high boost levels.
Your contradicting yourself a bit here though, you say your not going to make a mental beast but then in the next breath you say your aiming for upto 180bhp. That is serious figure for a 1.1 or 1.2 8v engine tbh. All i can tell you is my old cinq ran 135bhp on stock internals for a long time and had no problems. But then i don't think i'm particularly hard on my cars and perhaps if it was driven harder more it would have had issues.
150bhp should be pretty easily achievable with the mpi head and stuff though and trust me on this, it will be seriously quick car for a little hatch.
Your contradicting yourself a bit here though, you say your not going to make a mental beast but then in the next breath you say your aiming for upto 180bhp. That is serious figure for a 1.1 or 1.2 8v engine tbh. All i can tell you is my old cinq ran 135bhp on stock internals for a long time and had no problems. But then i don't think i'm particularly hard on my cars and perhaps if it was driven harder more it would have had issues.
150bhp should be pretty easily achievable with the mpi head and stuff though and trust me on this, it will be seriously quick car for a little hatch.
Jason's running 170 isn't he? That's without and LSD and fancy manifolds and stock rods ect, just a good turbo selection and maybe water/meth injection.
I went in a certain yellow cinq turbo and it was in triple figures rather quickly, that was around 130hp wasn't it
I went in a certain yellow cinq turbo and it was in triple figures rather quickly, that was around 130hp wasn't it
is his username fordcosworth or similar?? The number 167bhp rings a bell with me but its been a long time since i read about that car, no idea its current specs but i think he's a admin of UK-Mods website and has a full spec list on there.. My point was just that 160+ bhp is not a basic turbo setup, i've not had mine RR'd but i would guess its only around 100bhp from how it feels. Which is less than VA claimed the kit alone makes.. All i have on top is exhaust, 40mm TB and uprated fuel pump.
Which yellow one you been in? The one of Kerr Family history that Martin and then Donna had?? Not sure on how thats power but certainly is rapid that one, similar to my old cinq but through better tuning, mine was just running more boost to make high figures.
Which yellow one you been in? The one of Kerr Family history that Martin and then Donna had?? Not sure on how thats power but certainly is rapid that one, similar to my old cinq but through better tuning, mine was just running more boost to make high figures.
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I think Jason's car is parked up.
Point, I think, is that sure, you can get loads of power using standard components, but you won't get much in the way of reliability/driveability. Craig and the new owner of the Emma/Martin/Donna car have both turned the boost down to produce around 115bhp.
Still, 115bhp is enough to beat the carp out of any 3 series BMW short of an M (never encountered one) and to scare the carp out of any driver in the wet.
Point, I think, is that sure, you can get loads of power using standard components, but you won't get much in the way of reliability/driveability. Craig and the new owner of the Emma/Martin/Donna car have both turned the boost down to produce around 115bhp.
Still, 115bhp is enough to beat the carp out of any 3 series BMW short of an M (never encountered one) and to scare the carp out of any driver in the wet.
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ok and see the way people say the punto 60 engine ? i found out what engine it is but what year would go into my 97 cinq because i hope i got the right year engine for my cinq lol
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ok im not gonna hit 180bhp but hopefully around 140 to 150 bhp.
can you put both the pistons machined down and the de-compression plate on or should i do just one of them ?????? because im worried if i get the pistons machined down it mite make them weaker and i dont what that lol so i was thinking of just putting a 1.5mm de-compression plate on because i just what to get the car going back on the road then il pick up an other engine and then il forge the new engine.
can you put both the pistons machined down and the de-compression plate on or should i do just one of them ?????? because im worried if i get the pistons machined down it mite make them weaker and i dont what that lol so i was thinking of just putting a 1.5mm de-compression plate on because i just what to get the car going back on the road then il pick up an other engine and then il forge the new engine.
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do one or the t'other. I personally would go for decomp plate over machining pistons - the pistons will be stronger and it also move the head up a fraction which helps getting the oil return from the turbo at a better angle (if your using the chop stock manifold and weld flange on method).
For a P60, I'd go for 1.2 16v pistons and rods over either machining or a decompression plate. Otherwise, with blu.
well yes that, i would say though if aiming for 140+ then your way better off with 16v pistons etc. There is no reason at all you can't just buy a complete 16v bottom end and use the whole thing is there?? That was my plan anyway, i just need bearings and shims etc so i can put it all together as what i bought was a disassembled bottom end but i was just planning to use the block as well.
