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Old 29-12-2013   #1
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Brazil 
How much torque can theses gearboxes handle?

Hi guys, what's up?

At first, IDK if this topic is on the right place, because it said there that this place is no for model specific talk, but once that's the only place that I found about technical talk, here I am!

Well, as you can see (and acess) in my signature, I own a (Brazilian-built) Type 198 Bravo fitted to the C510 Dualogic gearbox and I'm with some bad plans to it... Maybe I buy a 1.4 16V Turbo T-JET 150 HP powered one (fitted to the C635 manual gearbox), but even in this case I'm still with those evil plans!

Let me cut to the chase: I wanna now how much torque each gearbox is able to handle!

C510 manual and Dualogic: About these ones I think that they can handle the same amout, because Dualogic just triggers the clutch and shifts the gears.

- I read on Internet that C510 can handle something about 370 nm, but looking on this site I see that there's a ECU Tuning available to Punto's MultiJet 1.6 16V 120 HP unit that builds up the torque up to high 400 nm. Once I think GP/EVO are fitted to C510, so it's supposed to handle at least 400 nm, right?

C635: About this one IDK, sinceraly! I heard from a friend that it can handle something about 470 nm, but I'd like to check the veracity of this information with you!

And, just out of curiosity, can C635 DCCT handle the same amoount of torque that C635 manual does?

Cheers, and sorry for the bad English!!
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'14 Fiat Bravo (Tipo 198) T-JET 1.4 16V Turbo (Interlagos Yellow)
Former ride: '11 Fiat Bravo (Tipo 198) Absolute Dualogic E.TorQ 1.8 16V Flex FULL OPTION
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Old 29-12-2013   #2
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Re: How much torque can theses gearboxes handle?

See, for example here.

I doubt the C510 will handle that much torque. It's an old Alfa box -- even in the Alfa 155 it wasn't that reliable.

FIAT have also been using a Mitsubishi and a GM box (the M32): AFAIK, these are not "cup" type boxes -- they have a third shaft running from the diff through a bearing to the inner pot joint on one side. (Similar arrangement to, for example, Toyota MR2).

You'd think -- but I've never examined it -- that these boxes are "deeper" (require more firewall clearance, etc.) than the C510.
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Old 29-12-2013   #3
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Re: How much torque can theses gearboxes handle?

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
See, for example here.

I doubt the C510 will handle that much torque. It's an old Alfa box -- even in the Alfa 155 it wasn't that reliable.

FIAT have also been using a Mitsubishi and a GM box (the M32): AFAIK, these are not "cup" type boxes -- they have a third shaft running from the diff through a bearing to the inner pot joint on one side. (Similar arrangement to, for example, Toyota MR2).

You'd think -- but I've never examined it -- that these boxes are "deeper" (require more firewall clearance, etc.) than the C510.
I see... The max torque (factory) delivered to C510 is 206 nm (Brazilian-built Punto T-JET is one exemple), but of course this G/Box is able to handle much more. Here in Brazil Palio family uses C510 5-speed both manual and Dualogic gearbox, and I know about a turbo Mk4 Palio 1.8R with a torque output of more than 420 nm, just with upgraded clutch and a lighter flywheel. Of course that this is uncertain, but this gearbox must handle at least something as 360 nm, no? What's your guess?

I learned a little bit about this M32 box and it must be very interesting to work with, let's see...
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'14 Fiat Bravo (Tipo 198) T-JET 1.4 16V Turbo (Interlagos Yellow)
Former ride: '11 Fiat Bravo (Tipo 198) Absolute Dualogic E.TorQ 1.8 16V Flex FULL OPTION
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Old 30-12-2013   #4
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Re: How much torque can theses gearboxes handle?

My guess is, it won't last long. (Or that someone is doing their calculations wrong!)

For example, a 290 bhp MR2 turbo will produce something like 330nm. The stock Toyota box will easily cope with 600bhp (but CV joints and driveshafts will struggle). But Toyota designed the box for a Group S rallycar..............
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Old 30-12-2013   #5
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Re: How much torque can theses gearboxes handle?

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
My guess is, it won't last long. (Or that someone is doing their calculations wrong!)

For example, a 290 bhp MR2 turbo will produce something like 330nm. The stock Toyota box will easily cope with 600bhp (but CV joints and driveshafts will struggle). But Toyota designed the box for a Group S rallycar..............
I think my calculations are right, because this Palio had somthing between 400-450 BHP and 43 kgfm. Of course it's not gonna least 3 years, but I'm really committed to discover this gearbox real limit!
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'14 Fiat Bravo (Tipo 198) T-JET 1.4 16V Turbo (Interlagos Yellow)
Former ride: '11 Fiat Bravo (Tipo 198) Absolute Dualogic E.TorQ 1.8 16V Flex FULL OPTION
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #6
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Greece 
Re: How much torque can theses gearboxes handle?

With Fiat punto 1.4 GT gearboxes ( C510.5.21 ) we have reached 420nm+ of torque, no problem.... They are prone to failure in drivashafts usually when you let the clutch abruptly with good grip and broken syncromesh when you miss a gear e.x. 2nd to 3rd more typically....
In dragster applications we have also a couple of occasions of differentials exploding (rarely).... Also one occasion at 450nm we had the gear teeth of 4th gear stripped down from a dyno pull. (stroker 8v @ 1600cc + 2.5bar of boost)
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