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Old 17-05-2011   #16
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Re: P0105 & p0340

Would it make any difference if i used different software? I currently use easy obd II. Would the fiat ecuscan be any better?
It's up to you, as generally more useful as FES is then in your case you already have the fault code but having more information is always helpful

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Sorry, CMPS just stands for camshaft position sensor. If you're feeling capable then you could test the circuits.Note the MAP sensor K43 and CMPS K47 share in parallel their 5v supply and earth from the ECU so they could very easily affect one another if there is a short circuit and yu have fault codes for both of them. Note also the CMPS has an outer shield, a sheath that is earthed at C40 to protect it from electrical spikes. A problem with this would cause bad signals too

You could check for continuity and short circuits to earth, Check their wires for damage like crushed or burnt wires and open circuits
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Old 17-05-2011   #17
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Re: P0105 & p0340

I'm guessing i need a multi/volt meter?

Decks you have the patience of a saint! Where exactly should i be testing for these? Doing the physical stuff i don't mind, like changing brakes etc, but technical stuff baffles me!
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Old 17-05-2011   #18
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Re: P0105 & p0340

Ha yes you'd need a multimeter but you only need something simple maybe between 5- 10

Then i'd check for continuity ie a completed circuit from the ECU connector through the CMPS and MAP sensor. You check out the pin numbers 43 and 7 on ECU connector B and use your multi meter to check for a low resistance circuit . Then, with power on and connectors reconnected id check for 5v power and earth being supplied to them by back probing ie putting a pin or similar in the back of the connector down the wire so you can check for power without having to disconnect the connector
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Old 17-05-2011   #19
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Re: P0105 & p0340

The one thing thats really putting me off is the rain as i have to get under the car and that means making a mess of my clothes. It doesn't help that everything is so unaccessible on the stilo.

I'll get a multimeter tomorrow and then try my luck. One final question, where is the ECU...

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Old 17-05-2011   #20
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Re: P0105 & p0340

All of this is available from the topside
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Name:	1.6  <a href='http://www.fiatforum.com/autolink.php?id=8&script=showthread&forumid=33' target='_blank' title='Engine Control Unit' class='gal'>ecu</a> earth checking 1.JPG
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ECU is easy to find

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To get access to the pins you pull up the red bar clamp

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and then you find the pins from the drawings

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Name:	 <a href='http://www.fiatforum.com/autolink.php?id=8&script=showthread&forumid=33' target='_blank' title='Engine Control Unit' class='gal'>ecu</a> M10 connector B pinout.JPG
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Last edited by Deckchair5; 17-05-2011 at 23:05.
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Old 19-05-2011   #21
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Re: P0105 & p0340

So i got my brother to help me with this as i haven't got a clue how to use a multi meter! He tested it as you said and said there was no resistance at all so he didn't bother to test the 5v as he said the sensor must be broken.

Next question, how easy is it to change this sensor, as getting to it from under the car isn't the easiest thing so i'm guessing changing it won't be easy either...
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Old 19-05-2011   #22
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Re: P0105 & p0340

Well, near zero resistance actually means the circuit is good, ie there is little resistance to those magic little electrons flowing. Imagine a water pipe with very little resistance to water flow so that's good. If you can't get a resistance measurement ie near infinite resistance then that's bad, the circuit path is blocked. Some multimeters have a circuit testing setting and beeps if the circuit you're testing is good with no or low resistance. That's pretty easy to use

It would be worth getting a 2nd opinion before diving in to change the CMPS. If there's a problem with the 5v supply or earth then you'd be wasting your time and the fact you have MAP sensor fault codes coming up too then it looks more like a circuit problem than a component failure but it could even be the MAP sensor itself throwing everything out and dragging the CMPS down with it

So you really need to have both MAP and CMPS circuits checked for continuity and then checked for 5v and earth supply. If you've got that then you need to check the earth shield wire and then check the signals from both sensors. Really not difficult for a decent electrician but it might be worth finding a good one to check it out for you

If you need to, then you get to the camshaft sensor itself from the top, it's just the connector that is half way down the engine front
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Old 19-05-2011   #23
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Re: P0105 & p0340

How abouts would i find the actual sensor? I don't really want to go under the car again as its filthy! I don't know if he meant there was no resistance or i misheard but he definately said the sensor wasn't working as the meter didn't read anything.

I'll ask him again tomorrow, failing that, would i have to go to fiat to fix this or would any garage be able to do the job?
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Old 19-05-2011   #24
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Re: P0105 & p0340

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It's next to the camshaft sprocket on the top side of the engine
BUT there may not be anything wrong with it and it really needs some further investigations on the circuit as to why the car is putting up fault codes for it and the MAP sensor
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Last edited by Deckchair5; 19-05-2011 at 21:01.
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Old 20-05-2011   #25
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Re: P0105 & p0340

So i've asked my brother again and what he actually meant was that it had a high resistance/infinite and that the circuit was open.

What we did was remove the ECU B connector and tested them from the number 43 and 7 pins and then tested them while the ECU was plugged back in. My brother's pretty good with electronics so i believe him.

How would we test the MAP sensor and also for the 5v? Is the MAP sensor the black connector next to the white one?

The CMPS sensor has an open circuit so what does that mean? Sorry for all the questions but its beginning to be a pain to drive the stilo...
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Old 20-05-2011   #26
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Re: P0105 & p0340

Open circuit is bad news and means there's no circuit. If you tested it at the ECU pns then that's good but i would also test directly at the white connector as bad contacts there would produce open circuit too and CMPS don't often fail

5v and earth arrives at the MAP sensor from the ECU. Check your wiring diag for wire colors and pin numbers
The black connector next to the white one you've been working on is the crank/rpm sensor.

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Name:	 <a href='http://www.fiatforum.com/autolink.php?id=15&script=showthread&forumid=33' target='_blank' title='Manifold Absolute Pressure' class='gal'>MAP</a> 1.2.JPG
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Your MAP sensor is up the top of the engine on the intake. Do you have elearn? If not then time to get one. MAP has 4 wires
pin 1 5v
pin 2 air temp signal
pin 3 earth
pin 4 MAP signal
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Old 20-05-2011   #27
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Re: P0105 & p0340

I do have a elearn cd somewhere. What should i be looking for on there?

And what should i be testing the MAP sensor for? With the white connector, do i leave it connected and test it or disconnect and test? Theres 3 pins but i don't know which one to check.

BTW, you're a legend for helping mate. And you deserve a drink after this!
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Old 20-05-2011   #28
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Re: P0105 & p0340

Ok concentrating on the CMPS white connector we are looking for continuity, a circuit, a low resistance so with power off, disconnect the white conector and check the two outer pins resistance. No figure at all means no circuit and there is break in the wiring or the CMPS is finished and needs replacing

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Name:	 <a href='http://www.fiatforum.com/autolink.php?id=11&script=showthread&forumid=33' target='_blank' class='gal'>cam</a> angle and  <a rel='nofollow' href='http://www.fiatforum.com/autolink.php?id=15&script=showthread&forumid=33' target='_blank' title='Manifold Absolute Pressure' class='gal'>MAP</a> sensors 4.JPG
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With the MAP then initially check for 5v supplied to pin D (grey wire) with ignition on as this is also the supply for the CMPS.

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Name:	 <a href='http://www.fiatforum.com/autolink.php?id=15&script=showthread&forumid=33' target='_blank' title='Manifold Absolute Pressure' class='gal'>MAP</a> sensor 3.JPG
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Just push the multimeter pos probe into the back of the connector like this
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Old 23-05-2011   #29
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Re: P0105 & p0340

So i'm a little confused with the wiring diagram and colours.

Heres my map sensor:



Do i still test the 2 outside wires as you mention pin D as the 5v but pin D is white on the connector. Also, my probe is too big to squash down the side of the wire. I haven't tested the CMPS as its been pouring again so i've been putting it off however i really need to get this sorted. Having no acceleration is dangerous getting out of junctions!
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Old 24-05-2011   #30
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Re: P0105 & p0340

You're not reading the post properly and getting confused which connector

CMPS WHITE CONNECTOR
Ok concentrating on the CMPS white connector we are looking for continuity, a circuit, a low resistance so with power off, disconnect the white conector and check the two outer pins resistance.
So what does this mean? No figure at all, infinite resistance means no circuit and there is break in the wiring or the CMPS is finished and needs replacing. If you have a very low reistance then there is a circuit ie no broken wires or broken internal circuit so that looks promising

MAP SENSOR
If your probe is too big then use a pin to back probe the connector and connect to that. 5v should be suppplied to pin D which is marked on the sensor if you look closely and is the grey wire
So what does this tell you? That the ECU is putting out 5v to the MAP sensor and this is on the same supply line as the CMPS

If that's ok then go back the CMPS white connector and see if 5v is being supplied there also to its pin 1 - again grey wire
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