I think the head gasket on my 2000 1.2 16V Mk2 has just failed.
Over the last few days it has been a bit reluctant to idle when first started up hot or cold, but with a bit of revving settled down to a nice normal sounding tick over. I suspected leads or plugs. However after deciding to check the leads today and starting the engine up a few times suddenly antifreeze started being forced out of the filler bottle at a fair old rate. I took out the plugs and number one looked to have antifreeze on it.
I'm guessing that this is bad and the gasket has gone and that number one cylinder is pressurizing the water system?
If so I need a plan.

Hi,
they do tend to fail with old age..as well as obvious mechanical issues-overheating

LOTS of guides and info on here use SEARCH in "advanced",

Charlie

The gasket was replaced and head skimmed and welded just under 2 years ago at a garage and has only covered about 7k miles since then. However they didn't replace the thermostat and I've had a few problems with replacing those and bleeding the system over the last year or so. Maybe the old thermostat has caused the problem before I fitted the new one. (I fitted 2, a pattern part initially and then a Fiat one).

Did you remove coolant cap while engine/coolant was stil hot
If so
Thats normal for coolant to fly out as the cooling system can run upto 110 / 120 before the water can boil
If you remove cap, no prrssurr means water boils and spluges out burning you badly

Get a sniff test or a compression test to see whats going on


Ziggy

Ziggy no the coolant was being forced past the cap and overflowing. I tried it from cold with the cap off as well and the level immediately rose and coolant started to overflow also big bubbles were coming up as well.

I'll document the job here as I go along to help anyone else tackling this 16V head. I can see this taking quite some time..:chin:
I think the thing I need to do is get the head off and see what's going on so I need to assemble a list of parts for the job and any special tools I'll need.
I've not come across a head like this one so I'm a bit unsure of the best way to proceed.
It looks like I need two different sizes of RIBE sockets to remove bolts holding the cylinder head extension assembly and the cylinder head itself. Not sure of the sizes.

Parts:
Head gasket kit
Head bolts x 10
Cambelt and tensioner
Water pump

Special tools:
RIBE sockets x 2 (Sizes?)
Cam locks and engine (piston) timing rods
Torque angle gauge
Two cam follower retainers - sheets of tin or card? to keep cam followers in place when the head extension is removed.

Any parts or tools I've missed?

Kirok said:

I'll document the job here as I go along to help anyone else tackling this 16V head. I can see this taking quite some time..:chin:
I think the thing I need to do is get the head off and see what's going on so I need to assemble a list of parts for the job and any special tools I'll need.
I've not come across a head like this one so I'm a bit unsure of the best way to proceed.
It looks like I need two different sizes of RIBE sockets to remove bolts holding the cylinder head extension assembly and the cylinder head itself. Not sure of the sizes.

Parts:
Head gasket kit
Head bolts x 10
Cambelt and tensioner
Water pump

Special tools:
RIBE sockets x 2 (Sizes?)
Cam locks and engine (piston) timing rods
Torque angle gauge
Two cam follower retainers - sheets of tin or card? to keep cam followers in place when the head extension is removed.

Any parts or tools I've missed?

Click to expand...

The ribe bits are 8mm for the head extension and 9mm for the head. Make sure the 8mm is fairly long as the bolts are deep inside the head extension.
You may need to fabricate a tool to apply the tension to the tensioner. Angled pin nosed pliers also work well.

Finally you'll need a 'sprocket bracing' tool to hold the cam sprocket when applying torque to its bolt. Without this you're putting a lot of shearing force into the cam and your cam locking tool. Again fairly easy to fabricate with a couple of lengths of metal and some nuts and bolts.

You will also need a valve compression tool if you want to replace the valves stem seals while you're at it. They normally come with a HG kit. Make sure it's this type else you'll have a job getting the collets back on: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JcuXxOPJL._SX522_.jpg

Thanks Grapeman great info.

I also found a good relevant link on the 1.2 Sporting 16V https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/236773-head-gasket-sporting.html

Done some more reading in the Haynes and I need to take out the inlet manifold and exhaust manifold. Any tips for doing these two jobs. The inlet manifold looks pretty difficult to remove?

Waiting for some RIBE bits so I can remove the head extension and cylinder head.

Kirok said:

Done some more reading in the Haynes and I need to take out the inlet manifold and exhaust manifold. Any tips for doing these two jobs. The inlet manifold looks pretty difficult to remove?

Waiting for some RIBE bits so I can remove the head extension and cylinder head.

Click to expand...

Yeah you will need to remove the manifolds. The exahst is easy to remove. I take the bolts off and hang it from the front sub frame. Be careful of your lambda sensors - I disconnect them before removing the manifold.
The inlet is an ass to do! Some members will say to leave it on but I don't think it's possible. There is an arm coming from the manifold reaching over the head extension. It provides support for your HT leads. Fiat annoying positioned the arm over one of the head extension bolts. So without snapping the arm off you have to remove the inlet first.

There are 8x11mm bolts holding the manifold onto the head. You'll need a wide variety of sockets, extensions, spanners and patience to remove the buggers.

Just disconnect the fuel and electrical interfaces. No need to remove the injectors.

Once you have all the bolts out there is just enough wiggle room to pull the manifold out. You'll need to push back first to get over a couple of studs.

I find it helps a little to release the alternator belt so you can push the alternator out of your way.

I'd also remove the throttle body and leave the ecu tucked away before doing the inlet.

When putting the manifold back on, be very careful to ensure the coolant gasket doesn't fall off - it's fairly loose.

Good luck!

Grapeman do you mean you leave the exhaust manifold attached to the down pipe and just tie it away from the engine?

Kirok said:

Grapeman do you mean you leave the exhaust manifold attached to the down pipe and just tie it away from the engine?

Click to expand...

Yeah that's right. There is plenty of movement if the lower flex joint to allow you to pull it off the head and hang it from something.

Thanks again Grapeman.
Regarding the inlet manifold if I did crack off that plastic arm covering the bolt for the head extension would it be possible to remove the head with the inlet manifold still attached? Any need then to move the alternator? Apologies for all the questions.

Kirok said:

Thanks again Grapeman.
Regarding the inlet manifold if I did crack off that plastic arm covering the bolt for the head extension would it be possible to remove the head with the inlet manifold still attached? Any need then to move the alternator? Apologies for all the questions.

Click to expand...

Never dome a 16v but u may struggle to get it around enough

I would honestly get some decent extensions and try to remove it all

Taking a head out is 10x easier without inlet attached


Removalnof alternator is needed

Jist need to loose the tension off and temove belt

Depends which tensioner you have though

Ziggy

Deleted

Kirok said:

Thanks again Grapeman.
Regarding the inlet manifold if I did crack off that plastic arm covering the bolt for the head extension would it be possible to remove the head with the inlet manifold still attached? Any need then to move the alternator? Apologies for all the questions.

Click to expand...

I agree with what Ziggy said. You won't need to take the alternator out, but you need to remove the belt attached to it. This is because you will need to take the crank shaft pully off, which is also attached to the alternator's belt, to gain access to the timing belt.

Even with snapping the plastic off the inlet manifold, I can't see a practical way of getting your home made 'cam follower retainer tool' into the head extension with the inlet still on. I would strongly recommend you try taking it off - I know your pain thought. I also die a little inside whenever I have to take it off.

Good luck

I took my head extension off.

https://www.fiatforum.com/newbie-central/418529-engine-noises.html?p=4025529

You will save yourself an enormous amount of aggrevation if you remove the bolts with some method (i magnetised my ribe socket) before you lift it off. The bolts are a bit too short so if you turn the extension upside down the bolts can come out inside the head extension. You can relocate them but it is a total pain to do so. Also if you make a lifter retain tool it will not fit till the bolts are removed - i had no idea that was the case until it all went wrong on me.

You also need to make sure that you lift the extension very evenly or it will jam on the dowels and then when it comes free you are going to have lifters all over the floor - which is what happened to me. Fortunately no harm done. Otherwise my plastic tools to retain the lifters worked well.

When you lift the extension you cannot guarantee you will keep the lifters in place and you dont want to put the extension upright and down upon them if they are half out and get them jammed.

You must release the bolts on the extension evenly as they are compressing the valves. I managed to strip a thread somehow doing mine and had to drill it out and put a Recoil repair piece in.

Incidently a professional garage cut thru the bracket that holds my inlet manifold so they could tighten up the extension bolts because of an oil leak. The car now has 220,000km and the manifold seems fine. I think the biggest problem is that you tend to lean on the manifold when you are working on the car, but it took me a long time to realise the thing was cut thru and i began worrying about it.

Thanks for that information Judderbar that'll prove very helpful. One thing that worries me is if the lifters fall out when you remove the head extension how do you make sure you put them back where they came from or doesn't matching them up matter too much?
Also on your link it looks like you used plastic card to make the flat retaining tools, was if difficult to push these into position and did you wrap the masking tape around the head extension to secure them before you lifted it off?

It all looks a bit more difficult than I first thought!

Kirok said:

Thanks for that information Judderbar that'll prove very helpful. One thing that worries me is if the lifters fall out when you remove the head extension how do you make sure you put them back where they came from or doesn't matching them up matter too much?
Also on your link it looks like you used plastic card to make the flat retaining tools, was if difficult to push these into position and did you wrap the masking tape around the head extension to secure them before you lifted it off?

It all looks a bit more difficult than I first thought!

Click to expand...

People say it is good practice to put the lifters back in the same holes. Mine got mixed up and it caused no problems for me.

My DIY lifter retainers are made of plastic with a 90 degree angled section - imagine two pieces joined together as a single piece of plastic. The pattern for them is in the haynes manual but they are talking about metal ones. The plastic was totally fine. About 2mm thick

I did this job on my own. The tape was only so i could get everything in place without it moving. The tape is only holding the plastic. Once I was ready i grabbed the extension and held the plastic tightly against the side of the extension with some spare fingers and then rotated it to be the right way up.

When you lift it off you can put your fingers on the plastic to hold it in place so no tape is needed and you can rotate the extension in your hands so it goes down upside down and the lifters cannot fall out.

When you undo the bolts the extension rises up on the valve springs once the gasket is unstuck. It is a good idea to make sure the gasket is unstuck all the way around even if it is still attached to both sides here and there otherwise it will spring up and can jam on the dowels. If that happens it is better to tighten the bolts to even up the extension and try again. So the extension rises up and sits on the valves and with the bolts out and the gasket free all the way around you can easily put the retainers in. I think i am correct in saying that if you set the engine for the timing belt then only the middle valves are depressed by the camshaft so once the bolts are undone you can rock the extension if you are not careful as it is now unsupported at each end and only pushed up by the middle valves