Register Login
Save up to 15% with Adrian Flux insurance!
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-09-2021   #1
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 73
Thanks: 2
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Panda diesel wonít start after 7 weeks without use?

Hi
Iíve been away for 7 weeks and before then my 2007 panda multijet diesel started perfectly.
Today I turned the engine using my jumpstart device and after 4 or 5 cranks it didnít start before the jumpstarters battery was flat. Normally it should fire up on 2 to 3 cranks.
Iím gonna recharge my car battery overnight so will give it another go tomorrow morning. But ignoring the battery is it normal to take several cranks to start a diesel after 7 weeks without use? Or could it be a serious engine fault?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by MountainRunner; 08-09-2021 at 15:43.
MountainRunner is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 08-09-2021   #2
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 486
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda diesel wonít start after 7 weeks without use?

Are you waiting enough time after turning the ignition on for the fuel rail to prime itself with fuel.
Tim
Likes MountainRunner, varesecrazy liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

timmycm850 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 08-09-2021   #3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Near the M4
Posts: 29,344
Thanks: 1160
Trader Rating: 0
varesecrazy has donated!
United Kingdom 
Quote Originally Posted by MountainRunner View Post
Hi
Iíve been away for 7 weeks and before then my 2007 panda multijet diesel started .. But ignoring the battery is it normal to take several cranks to start a diesel after 7 weeks without use? Or could it be a serious engine fault?

In a word : NO


I have 3 of these motors 07/57/58 Plates

Let the dash do its self test.. the fuel pump will run in the background..

Once the fuel pump stops AND the glow plug symbol goes out.. CRANK it should start instantly

Any delays mean you have something out of spec..

Common reasons to need more cranking:

Poor rail pressure.. ( no fuel will be injected until it has reached its accepted baseline )

Low cranking speed doesnt help build pressure.. try depressing the clutch whilst in neutral

You also want 4 HOT plugs


My 57 plate had a Starter motor issue..

No starter once hot

It would start well 'bumping' itself..

So proof indeed that bouts of long cranking are NOT necessary
Likes MountainRunner liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by varesecrazy; 08-09-2021 at 17:04.
varesecrazy is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 08-09-2021   #4
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Faringdon, Oxfordshire UK
Posts: 8,398
Thanks: 667
Trader Rating: 1
portland_bill has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda diesel wonít start after 7 weeks without use?

Diesel fuel seems to attract more condensation in the fuel tank than petrol. The fuel probably contains a little water which causes no problems when mixed well in small quantities, but it has a habit of evaporating off on hot days, then condensing in the tank as the outside temp cools. A tank between one-third and two-thirds full is worst. The condensed water runs down the sides of the tank, and sinks to the bottom, as the fuel is lighter.
When used regularly, the fuel filter catches it, and you don't know. Occasionally the filter will need draining, there's usually a tap on the bottom.
When stood for a time, it is possible that the amount of water accumulated in the bottom of the tank is too much, and only water is being pumped through. Difficult to set fire to that.

Find the drain on the filter, and drain it into a pot of some sort. It'll probably give a fair bit of water. Close the tap. Turn on the ignition and allow the in-tank pump to refill the filter. Repeat the drain and fill process until no more water comes out. Any water between the filter and injectors will push through, so there'll still be a delay in starting. If the fuel return from the rail to the tank is accessible easily, it might be possible to extract some more water there, but pressures are high, so this is a high risk. Fuel injected into skin can result in the need for amputation, so if there is any risk of escape, don't do this step.

If water is the issue, this should help.

Once running, and starting reliably, change the fuel filter.
Likes MountainRunner, varesecrazy liked this post
__________________
13 years motor trade, 16 years motor industry. 17 years Driving Instructor & 10 years Fleet Trainer
Panda Alessi (2015 Skoda Fabia)
portland_bill is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 08-09-2021   #5
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Near the M4
Posts: 29,344
Thanks: 1160
Trader Rating: 0
varesecrazy has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda diesel wonít start after 7 weeks without use?

Modern diesels seem to have placed a combined water in fuel and fuel temperature sensor in the threaded low point of the filter where the draincock traditionally lived..
Progress eh
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

varesecrazy is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 08-09-2021   #6
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Faringdon, Oxfordshire UK
Posts: 8,398
Thanks: 667
Trader Rating: 1
portland_bill has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda diesel wonít start after 7 weeks without use?

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
Modern diesels seem to have placed a combined water in fuel and fuel temperature sensor in the threaded low point of the filter where the draincock traditionally lived..
Progress eh
There will have to be a drain/bleed process. Maybe removal of the filter bowl, or perhaps the sensor gets removed as a drain? I'd expect the handbook to give advice, as this is something owners may have to do.

Edit:
Just looked at my pdf handbook, fuel filter not mentioned.
eLearn procedure is more complicated than necessary. Looks like no easy drain procedure, but there is a bleed screw on the filter, so could be used to remove any water, but will be messy.
Filter replacement requires a special tool to hold the filter, and another to undo the top, very silly. Likely to be a standard tool for filters made by same company, and may be possible to do it without, but mustn't risk damaging the canister.
Procedure pdf attached.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Diesel fuel filter.pdf (308.6 KB, 3 views)
__________________
13 years motor trade, 16 years motor industry. 17 years Driving Instructor & 10 years Fleet Trainer
Panda Alessi (2015 Skoda Fabia)

Last edited by portland_bill; 09-09-2021 at 00:16.
portland_bill is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 09-09-2021   #7
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,476
Thanks: 330
Trader Rating: 0
Goudrons has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda diesel wonít start after 7 weeks without use?

It won't fire the injectors if the rail pressure isn't high enough and you only get rail pressure by spinning the engine fast enough on the starter.

So a flat battery even one boosted by a jumper might not be spinning up the engine/hp pump fast enough as it takes a big power hit warming the glow plugs and spinning the starter motor.

Try recharging the battery or jumping it from another running car with a bigger, healthier battery.
Likes MountainRunner, nei12000 liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Goudrons is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 09-09-2021   #8
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,586
Thanks: 903
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda diesel wonít start after 7 weeks without use?

Your jump start battery went flat very quickly. It might be weak, but a very flat car battery can effectively suck the life out of the jump starter.

Try it again with a known good battery. You can do this by disconnecting your Panda battery earth terminal and connecting your jump lead earth directly to the engine. Connect the jump lead positive to your car battery positive.
Likes varesecrazy liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

DaveMcT is online now Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 09-09-2021   #9
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,665
Thanks: 394
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda diesel wonít start after 7 weeks without use?

I'd be surprised if it was anything other than the battery

diesel-powered or cars that always have their headlights on can be problematic with cheap jump leads.

check the dash lights for any clues. Immobiliser ? very occasionally loose the keys but the light would stay on
.

look at the rev counter can you see it bounce slightly as you Crank it over


does the engine check light light up.


having said all that. I still would be surprised if it isnt just not getting enough through the jump leads

might have to start the other car and rev it a bit while cranking the car with the flat battery.
Likes MountainRunner liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

koalar is online now Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 09-09-2021   #10
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 73
Thanks: 2
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda diesel wonít start after 7 weeks without use?

Thanks everyone.

I took battery out and recharged it overnight a good 12 hours. Put it back and engine fired up perfectly. Gave it a good rev up and drive.
Thanks koalar, varesecrazy thanked for this post
Likes Goudrons, koalar liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

MountainRunner is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 09-09-2021   #11
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Near the M4
Posts: 29,344
Thanks: 1160
Trader Rating: 0
varesecrazy has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda diesel wonít start after 7 weeks without use?

Good News

Do take note how soon it returns to long cranking..
Thanks koalar thanked for this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

varesecrazy is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-09-2021   #12
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,586
Thanks: 903
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Panda diesel wonít start after 7 weeks without use?

Your battery is probably well down on charge capacity. I had one that started the car just fine, but when it went flat, an Optimate (trickle charger) had it showing full in two hours. There was almost no usable capacity in the battery yet it could still start the car and cope with the steering load. New battery was fitted.

Check out the Yuasa YBX5012 from Tanya Batteries.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

DaveMcT is online now Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) 1.3 '06 diesel won't start paulf2012 Grande Punto 2 14-11-2013 12:24
1.3 multijet diesel won't start hrhrhr Tech Talk 0 12-04-2011 12:48
(T) Diesel Fiorino won't start Brian Fiorino Fiorino (Mk1 / Mk2) 3 27-11-2005 10:59
(T) Uno diesel won't start- can anyone help? Thomas P Uno 4 02-04-2005 17:10
(G) Fiat uno 1994 diesel won't start tamsin Uno 2 09-12-2003 04:40