Hello all. I'm new here and very untechnical so please bear with me.

I have an intermittent issue with my 2004 Dynamic that is quite troubling. The clutch was replaced mid-2019 and ever since when I've been driving for a while the clutch pedal gets squeaky when you depress it. Okay I thought, it's just because it's new and bedding itself in.
Then a couple of times the clutch pedal would stick to the floor and only a good deal of stamping on and swearing at it would get it to release again. It would go away for a while then come back at random.

However, it's now happened 4 times over the past three months and I'm getting scared to drive the car. Usually, it's when the engine is warm and I've been driving for a while. I'm scared that, either someone is going to rear-end me, or the car is going to suddenly lurch forward and cause an accident. I put the handbrake on and put it in neutral but if I'm stuck at lights or a roundabout I'm terrified I'll cause an accident.

So, what I'm asking is, does anyone know what might be causing this? I've read other threads that say it MIGHT be the slave cylinder, etc but nothing conclusive. Neither my local garage nor Kwik Fit who did the clutch seem to know what to do either because it's an intermittent problem. I need the car to get to work, etc but as I said, I'm getting too scared to drive it more than a few miles.

Is it likely that not having driven it much during lockdown last year has caused the problem? Dad had to replace the rear brakes and handbrake adjuster for the MOT in July, and I'm wondering if that has affected things. Having also tried to fix a troublesome misfire I'm ready to get rid of the car but as yet haven't found anything to replace it I can afford.

Can anyone help, please?

Clutch fork bushes weren’t greases correctly or at the time of the clutch replacement. Had this twice on my own. It makes the driving experience horrendous. Mine used to be worse in warm dry conditions. Unfortunately only way to the job properly is take the gearbox out again as the lower fork bush is the main culprit. I believe the correct or “best” grease is one containing a high level of molybdenum. I’m not entirely sure what Fiat used from the factory.

Adam

DemonPandaOwner said:

Dad had to replace the rear brakes and handbrake adjuster for the MOT in July, and I'm wondering if that has affected things.

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This is a complete red herring; there's no connection whatsoever between the brakes and the clutch.

DemonPandaOwner said:

the clutch pedal gets squeaky when you depress it.

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LadyKitching tells me that I get squeaky when I'm depressed, too.

Seriously, if the noise is coming from the pedal box area, it could just be that the pedal pivots need a bit of lubrication. Get your Dad to lie down on his back, looking up into the footwell - you can see the pivots and a quick squirt of lubricant is all it may need. The only other thing down there is the master cylinder; the slave cylinder is on the opposite side of the car. If the squeak is on the driver's side, it can't be either the slave or the clutch release mechanism.

jrkitching said:

This is a complete red herring; there's no connection whatsoever between the brakes and the clutch.



LadyKitching tells me that I get squeaky when I'm depressed, too.

Seriously, if the noise is coming from the pedal box area, it could just be that the pedal pivots need a bit of lubrication. Get your Dad to lie down on his back, looking up into the footwell - you can see the pivots and a quick squirt of lubricant is all it may need. The only other thing down there is the master cylinder; the slave cylinder is on the opposite side of the car. If the squeak is on the driver's side, it can't be either the slave or the clutch release mechanism.

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jrkitching -

Dad did try to lubricate the pedal using silicon spray but it hasn't helped. Was done on Saturday and I've only driven about 60 miles since and it played up yesterday.

Do you think bleeding and replacing the fluid would help? Not sure how old it is (would they change it when they did the clutch?).

Think we'll also try to have a listen with the car on the front garden and see if we can figure out where the noise is. I'm fairly sure it's the driver's side but now you have me wondering...

This is typical of worn clutch master and slave cylinders. They are plastic bodied, and get sticky when worn, unlike metal cylinders that just leak.

There are several threads about this, have a wee search. Both cylinders need replacing, not difficult.

Your clutch master cylinder is sucking air past the seals. You can get a clutch master cylinder only for under £60.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233487238579?hash=item365cec85b3:g:Z4oAAOSwYIJePAul

The slave cylinder will not suck air but will eventually leak fluid. This one should plug straight into the coupling above the gearbox. If the coupling is seized (many are) just disconnect the pipe at the cylinder. DO NOT lose the clip. You need to remove the battery case to gain access.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294097110065?epid=248487981&hash=item44798dc431:g:3sUAAOSwAkRgZcL9

On our 2005 1.2 dynamic.

3 years after a clutch change the pedal began to stay down occasionally. The over centre spring under the dashboardvthst makes the pedal light when the pedal is down had become too strong compared to the spring pressure from the clutch.

So I limited the pedal movement under the dash with a carefully placed bolt fixed into the pedal arm switch plate( the plate used later on for the really useful clutch switch).

Now it does stick down. However I may change the fluid this autumn as I have to do its service in October and the Mot with discs and pads so I may as well need the clutch while I'm at it as its not been done for about 6 years.

Tim

should have read no it doesn't stick down

AAB1992 said:

Clutch fork bushes weren’t greases correctly or at the time of the clutch replacement. Had this twice on my own. It makes the driving experience horrendous. Mine used to be worse in warm dry conditions. Unfortunately only way to the job properly is take the gearbox out again as the lower fork bush is the main culprit. I believe the correct or “best” grease is one containing a high level of molybdenum. I’m not entirely sure what Fiat used from the factory.

Adam

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The clutch fork bushes are a self lubricating hard plastic of some type. They have to be removed to extract the fork and being brittle get destroyed in the process. If the release fork is not showing signs of wear it's usually left well alone.

timmycm850 said:

Now it does stick down. However I may change the fluid this autumn as I have to do its service in October and the Mot with discs and pads so I may as well need the clutch while I'm at it as its not been done for about 6 years.

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Just change the clutch fluid. I do ours every two years. Mine was done last week when I changed the clutch and although barely two years old (when new cylinders were fitted) the fluid was horrible. Suck out the master cylinder reservoir with a syringe top up with clean fluid and flush the rest of it through. It takes longer to remove the battery box (to gain access) than doing the actual job.

DaveMcT said:

It takes longer to remove the battery box (to gain access) than doing the actual job.

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So long as you don't mind working by feel, you can bleed it with the battery box in place; there's plenty of space to get an allen key on the bleed screw, and attach a rubber tube to the nipple. There's some pictures in the 500 section, here - these were all taken with the battery box in situ.. It helps if you've done it once, so you know what to expect. Easiest (and least messy) with a vacuum bleeder.

Have some water handy to wash away any stray fluid.

Hydraulic clutches work much harder than the brakes (think how many more times you press the clutch than the brake), and there's very little fluid in the system, so no wonder it gets contaminated quickly and needs changing every two years (annually would be better).

I tried to do mine with the battery in place. It really wasn't worth the struggle. Battery box removal is quick enough.

Hello all. Thought I'd give you all an update on the clutch of the demon Panda.

Dad bled the system and apparently, the fluid was pretty dark so it was definitely worth doing. However... after going out yesterday to get some fuel the pedal started squeaking again on the way home. I only drove about 4 miles total, plus about another 4 over the past few days to the supermarket and back. After having a listen there is some difference of opinion as to where the squeak is coming from. I think it's the driver's side but my Mum says the passenger side.

So, do I just change both cylinders and be done with it, or is it likely to be something else? We got the new cylinders for £140 yesterday but I don't want to pay out for stuff that's not really necessary as I am hoping to change the car in the near future.

I did spot a similar post where someone else suggested it was the release forks? Any suggestions?

i would try and diagnose the problem. Helps if you have an assistant to confirm where the noise is coming from. Mobil phone record function is also useful.

if its under the battery box

take the rubber cover off, press the piston back and spray some silicon grease. It might take awhile to work in. It would be better to put some grease in the groove between the piston and the guide. Half way down the White plastic part. This requires slight dismantling.

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/488879-necessary-change-slave-cylinder.html

I doubt the forks will ever squeak. They metal against plastic with plenty of clearance

Change them.

If the pedal sticks down in the middle of a junction, it will be a very frightening moment, and could be serious. Stop faffing about with differential diagnoses, varied opinions, and minor, hopeful, quick fixes, and do the job properly, once. Then be safe and enjoy the car.

Been there, done that. Pedal stuck down in middle of the Magic Roundabout, Swindon, luckily it came back up with a foot under it, but that requires experience and quick thinking, from a lifetime in the motor trade. These plastic cylinders squeak, then stick when worn, unlike metal cylinders that tend to leak first.

Pedal sticking down is either fluid blowing out of the slave cylinder (should be obvious by the mess) or the master is sucking in air. Bleeding the system will offer a temporary fix and proved the problem is hydraulic. As Portland Bill says, change both cylinders and be done with it.

Total cost about £100 is cheap compared to having an accident when the car wont move.

Squeaking at the engine end is caused by the "self lubricating" bush around the clutch actuating fork. Squirt some 3-in-1 oil (NOT WD40) below the lever arm pivot to lubricate the bush. You can see it by looking down at the top of the gearbox.

Squeaking at the pedal end might go away with a new master cylinder but again some 3-in-1 oil on the pivot bushes should help.

DaveMcT said:

Pedal sticking down is either fluid blowing out of the slave cylinder (should be obvious by the mess) or the master is sucking in air. Bleeding the system will offer a temporary fix and proved the problem is hydraulic. As Portland Bill says, change both cylinders and be done with it.

Total cost about £100 is cheap compared to having an accident when the car wont move.

Squeaking at the engine end is caused by the "self lubricating" bush around the clutch actuating fork. Squirt some 3-in-1 oil (NOT WD40) below the lever arm pivot to lubricate the bush. You can see it by looking down at the top of the gearbox.

Squeaking at the pedal end might go away with a new master cylinder but again some 3-in-1 oil on the pivot bushes should help.

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not sure I understand

a sticking slave cylinder fails without any fluid inside them ???

with the slave off the car. Push the rod down compressing the return spring it will not return. No mess to look at ???? unless it has a secondary problem

I can almost guarantee the sqeak isnt from the clutch actuating fork. Or put it another we have seen over a dozen squeaky slave, a couple of master and possibly 1 fork and thats has yet to be confirmed.

The slave cylinder has light weight internal return spring but not enough to lift the pedal.

When you bleed the fluid, at the slave, the pedal drops and stays down until you lift it. Lifting the pedal pulls fresh fluid into the master cylinder which I guess is where the air gets sucked in if seals are worn. If the slave seals fail, fluid will leak out. It will not suck in air because the clutch is pushing the system back up again keeping the slave seal compressed. I have now replaced two masters which were pulling in air. Neither had leaks from the slave though one has a rusted up bleed screw.

My 1.2 had a squeak, the master cylinder was letting in air and a ropey looking slave cylinder.
I bought a new master, but forgot to get a slave, so cleaned up the old one from my car which it turned out was good as new inside. I fitted the new master cylinder (Borg & Beck) and swapped the slave for my cleaned up cylinder. Bled the system and the clutch works perfectly. The squeak has not changed; not even slightly.

Afterwards, I pulled her old slave cylinder apart and the bleed screw is toast (rust), the inside and the seals look good as new.

DaveMcT said:

The slave cylinder has light weight internal return spring but not enough to lift the pedal.

When you bleed the fluid, at the slave, the pedal drops and stays down until you lift it. Lifting the pedal pulls fresh fluid into the master cylinder which I guess is where the air gets sucked in if seals are worn. If the slave seals fail, fluid will leak out. It will not suck in air because the clutch is pushing the system back up again keeping the slave seal compressed. I have now replaced two masters which were pulling in air. Neither had leaks from the slave though one has a rusted up bleed screw.

My 1.2 had a squeak, the master cylinder was letting in air and a ropey looking slave cylinder.
I bought a new master, but forgot to get a slave, so cleaned up the old one from my car which it turned out was good as new inside. I fitted the new master cylinder (Borg & Beck) and swapped the slave for my cleaned up cylinder. Bled the system and the clutch works perfectly. The squeak has not changed; not even slightly.

Afterwards, I pulled her old slave cylinder apart and the bleed screw is toast (rust), the inside and the seals look good as new.

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only spent a couple of minutes searching

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/307431-clutch-pedal-sticking-squeaking.html?p=3147260
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/337287-clutch-pedal-sticking-definative-answer.html?p=3355459
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/337287-clutch-pedal-sticking-definative-answer.html?p=3356043
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/337287-clutch-pedal-sticking-definative-answer.html?p=4357488
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV1oUc9LCJI



so all these people are wrong ? Google picks up at least 50 where just the slave fixed both the squeak and pedal sticking down


it will not 100%. I would prefer to diagnose the fault as per one of the posts above.



still have a sqeak ??? still have an old slave fitted.


it fine to have a difference of opinion and I am often wrong. However I believe you are driving the original poster down a blind alley

Fair enough Im just speaking as I found.

My squeak was unchanged with a different slave cylinder, that was just cleaned and greased with red grease so should be less squeaky than new.

The fix I suggest involves a squirt of 3-in-1 oil hardly a big deal and involves no dismantling at all. If nothing changes, swap the slave but by the sounds of it the OP's hydraulics are worn out and both ends should be replaced.