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Old 31-08-2019   #1
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What shared the drive with your panda?

I have just tucked my 50 year old Land Rover in a corner so I can pop the front wheels off the newly acquired panda to try find what's binding and examine everything else.

The Land Rover was my daily driver but has to come off the road as I'm getting the gearbox out and doing some other jobs.

Hope the panda doesn't need anything urgently as my Renault scenic is just about to get discs and pads all round.

So what cars share your drive with your panda?

Toby.Click image for larger version

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Old 31-08-2019   #2
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

Not a thing clawed through the last 90k of wind hail rain snow on its own and never missed a beat panda by name bear by nature
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Old 31-08-2019   #3
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

This is Becky:

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And this is Twinkle:

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Usually Becky would be sitting where I was standing when I took Twink's picture but she's parked by the kerbside because Mrs Jock left her there when she returned from shopping and found me working on the lawn mower.

Good luck with the gearbox on the Landy - have you done one before? The country garage I worked in when much younger was a BL agent (or was it Leyland by then?) and we did most of the local farmer's Land Rovers - series 3 mostly but there was the occasional series 2. In fact our tow truck was a series 2 (headlights in grill - always thought they look "right" there) with a "proper" crane in the bed. The other lads didn't like them because they were invariably filthy with "farmyard muck" and fertilizer/herbicide residue - Gave me a very nasty rash on one occasion! I really quite enjoyed working on them though. First time I assisted with a clutch I couldn't believe how heavy the box/transfer box assembly is. Will you be doing it in your driveway?
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Old 01-09-2019   #4
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

My Panda likes company, so shares the drive with either my Mazda, or another Panda.
it's a bit of a squeeze mind



Panda power
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Old 01-09-2019   #5
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

Mine currently shares the drive with a 2015 Fabia 1.2 TSi, which has to work for its living, being abused by learners.
Prior to the Fabia, was 7 years of Fiestas (AA Driving School), new one each 7-12 months, and before that a year of two Fiat 500s (BSM).
For a year it shared with my brother's Discovery, slowly diagnosed and with so many woes it was eventually scrapped.
Occasionally it sits next to various others visiting for minor repairs. A 2001 Focus, (drowned under a bridge last December), a 2004 Peugeot 307SW auto, a 2005 Clio and a 2002 Suzuki Carry van.

I'll take the Panda over them all.
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Old 01-09-2019   #6
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
This is Becky:

Attachment 202619


And this is Twinkle:

Attachment 202618

Usually Becky would be sitting where I was standing when I took Twink's picture but she's parked by the kerbside because Mrs Jock left her there when she returned from shopping and found me working on the lawn mower.

Good luck with the gearbox on the Landy - have you done one before? The country garage I worked in when much younger was a BL agent (or was it Leyland by then?) and we did most of the local farmer's Land Rovers - series 3 mostly but there was the occasional series 2. In fact our tow truck was a series 2 (headlights in grill - always thought they look "right" there) with a "proper" crane in the bed. The other lads didn't like them because they were invariably filthy with "farmyard muck" and fertilizer/herbicide residue - Gave me a very nasty rash on one occasion! I really quite enjoyed working on them though. First time I assisted with a clutch I couldn't believe how heavy the box/transfer box assembly is. Will you be doing it in your driveway?
I've had a couple of LR gearboxes out before. Borrow a mates engine crane, wrestle it into the back if the scenic and off to a mate to fettle.

Had the panda front wheels off and then it rained. Dragging front brake so may see if it's a caliper issue (discs are harder to fathom than drums!).
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Old 01-09-2019   #7
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

Quote Originally Posted by tobyd10 View Post
I've had a couple of LR gearboxes out before. Borrow a mates engine crane, wrestle it into the back if the scenic and off to a mate to fettle.

Had the panda front wheels off and then it rained. Dragging front brake so may see if it's a caliper issue (discs are harder to fathom than drums!).
We used to do them by sticking the jib of our engine crane in through the passenger side door (after removing the floor panels of course - always an apprentice job) and dropping the box to the floor. I did see it done once with two very big chaps, one on either side, with strapping under the box front and rear and round their shoulders - very red faces and lots of veins standing out! Having been used to wrestling gearboxes out of Marinas, Escorts, Cortinas, Dolomites, etc, etc. (once changed the clutch on a MK2 Cortina on my own lying on my back in the gutter with two of the car's wheels up on the kerb and the box tailshaft balanced on my knees whilst I guided the bellhousing with my hands - I must have been nuts? Oh no, I forgot, I was just young and invincible!) But the weight of the Land Rover box surprised me.

We've had Pandas for many years and semi seized front calipers are common. The old mark ones with their wedge type calipers seemed particularly prone but even our newest one, Becky (I'm afraid all our cars have names) needed attention when we bought her. Usually I find it's just a good clean up and some anti seize (ceramic Ceratec these days) but it's always worth just pushing the piston back a little to see if it's free moving. Not too difficult to do but if you have the type of caliper like mine, with the pin at the bottom, if it's badly seized (ours was) then don't hit it too hard with a hammer/punch as it's easy to break off the little lug. Here's a picture just for illustration. Of course you would be punching the other end of the pin to remove it.

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I'm pretty sure there is another type of caliper which uses two bolts to hold it on (as many do these days) which might be easier to deal with.

somewhere I've got a post on here from maybe a couple of years ago about freeing of Becky's front calipers if you can be bothered trying to find it. If I track it down I'll post here.

PS Hey, I found it already - the bit about Becky's brakes - Type into the search bar "Becky's brakes - a few surprises" and it should come up.
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Last edited by Pugglt Auld Jock; 01-09-2019 at 17:57. Reason: add PS
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Old 01-09-2019   #8
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
We used to do them by sticking the jib of our engine crane in through the passenger side door (after removing the floor panels of course - always an apprentice job) and dropping the box to the floor. I did see it done once with two very big chaps, one on either side, with strapping under the box front and rear and round their shoulders - very red faces and lots of veins standing out! Having been used to wrestling gearboxes out of Marinas, Escorts, Cortinas, Dolomites, etc, etc. (once changed the clutch on a MK2 Cortina on my own lying on my back in the gutter with two of the car's wheels up on the kerb and the box tailshaft balanced on my knees whilst I guided the bellhousing with my hands - I must have been nuts? Oh no, I forgot, I was just young and invincible!) But the weight of the Land Rover box surprised me.

We've had Pandas for many years and semi seized front calipers are common. The old mark ones with their wedge type calipers seemed particularly prone but even our newest one, Becky (I'm afraid all our cars have names) needed attention when we bought her. Usually I find it's just a good clean up and some anti seize (ceramic Ceratec these days) but it's always worth just pushing the piston back a little to see if it's free moving. Not too difficult to do but if you have the type of caliper like mine, with the pin at the bottom, if it's badly seized (ours was) then don't hit it too hard with a hammer/punch as it's easy to break off the little lug. Here's a picture just for illustration. Of course you would be punching the other end of the pin to remove it.

Attachment 202672

I'm pretty sure there is another type of caliper which uses two bolts to hold it on (as many do these days) which might be easier to deal with.

somewhere I've got a post on here from maybe a couple of years ago about freeing of Becky's front calipers if you can be bothered trying to find it. If I track it down I'll post here.

PS Hey, I found it already - the bit about Becky's brakes - Type into the search bar "Becky's brakes - a few surprises" and it should come up.
Cheers for the help and advice I will try fettle the calliper tomorrow. The passenger side is ok so hopefully that rules out the master cylinder.

Will look to do an oil and filter soon. I'm surprised how rusty the suspension parts are even though I can tell they aren't the original parts. Bit of a wire brush will help and some treatment before a coat of stone chip. Will see what level the gearbox is at by topping up with a bit of LR gearbox oil and do a full change with the engine oil.

I'll be getting the LR gearbox out the passenger door as the cross member stops me dropping it down. Getting it out is a lot easier than lining it up to get it in!

Cheers
Toby

Ps. My Land Rover is called Walter Henry
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Old 02-09-2019   #9
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

We have two Pandas and one Suzuki GT750 "Kettle" motorbike.
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Old 02-09-2019   #10
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

Quote Originally Posted by tobyd10 View Post
Cheers for the help and advice I will try fettle the calliper tomorrow. The passenger side is ok so hopefully that rules out the master cylinder.

Will look to do an oil and filter soon. I'm surprised how rusty the suspension parts are even though I can tell they aren't the original parts. Bit of a wire brush will help and some treatment before a coat of stone chip. Will see what level the gearbox is at by topping up with a bit of LR gearbox oil and do a full change with the engine oil.

I'll be getting the LR gearbox out the passenger door as the cross member stops me dropping it down. Getting it out is a lot easier than lining it up to get it in!

Cheers
Toby

Ps. My Land Rover is called Walter Henry
Regarding that little lug which can be so easily sheared off. It's part of the caliper carrier not the caliper itself so if you break it off you're probably going to be spending some time rooting around in scrap yards looking for one that can be saved (and if you find one it may well have a seized pin in it!) Just annoying.

I should say that all the Fiats we've owned have been petrols, my knowledge of the diesels is limited to what I read on here (the forum) and in my Haynes manuals. I buy most of my Fiat bits from Shop4parts and I'm very pleased with them and the quality of what they provide. Both our Panda and my boy's Punto (1.4 8 valve) are running on their Petronas syntium 3000 AV SAE 5w-40 to API SN spec. - It's just what they supply but a very good oil. These engines aren't exactly high tech or highly stressed so I think any reasonably good quality oil would make them happy. I'm very particular about transmission oils as they have to work for so long in a demanding environment. (I like to renew at around 50 to 60,000 miles on all my cars) So for these Fiats I buy Petronas Tutela transmission Technyx SAE 75w-85 to API GL4 plus spec. - again from S4p - This is specifically the oil Fiat specify for them and Petronas seem to be the only one doing a GL 4 plus spec (who knows what the "plus" is all about - I've got some ideas but that's for somewhere else) I also rather like Fuchs oils (Fuchs now supply the VAG "Quantum" oils - used to be Castrol) and I use them in the SEATS.

You mention the dreaded Rust word! I think it's generally true to say the bodywork is really quite well protected on these later cars. The 3 mark ones we've had all rusted horribly but whilst I was looking for - what turned out to be - Becky, all the cars I looked at (I was looking specifically for Dynamic Eco models so 2009/2010) were surprisingly good bodywise. Running gear was a different kettle of fish! They are particularly well known for rusting out sumps which can become porous and "weep" oil through the metal of the sump pan itself. Rear axles, specifically spring pans, need careful looking at and protecting. Do I remember correctly that it was Andy who stripped his axle out and sent it for a comprehensive blasting and treatment? A very interesting read. Also another of our friends (I think it was Portland Bill) procured a pattern made complete axle from an eBay vendor and swapped it over. He seems very pleased with the outcome and the price of these (probably far eastern made) axles are very affordable. I'm going to give my axle a good clean down and painting but when/if it throws in the towel it'll be one of these I'm going for. The only other thing (out of the ordinary run of rusty exhaust bits etc) is that the metal water pipe that runs along the front side of the engine behind the exhaust manifold/down pipe/Cat - it runs from the back of the water pump to the bottom radiator hose and on later engines also "collects" the return pipe from the heater - is prone to very localized corrosion. So it can look to be in pretty good overall condition but still be leaking! It also suffers from hardening of the rubber ring seal where it sits in the back of the water pump. This too can leak coolant often only when hot and pressurized. Keep a regular check on your coolant level. Of course all the usual things like leaky water pumps, heater matrix, radiator, etc, etc can happen but if you have an unexplained coolant loss it might well be this pipe or it's seal. Becky's looked pretty good but was just weeping slightly from the seal. I bought a complete pipe with seal from S4p and was glad I did as there was also a small leak from a bit of the pipe you could only see once it had been removed. Also these engines don't like getting too hot due to loss of coolant and will "bite" back by blowing their head gaskets just to spite you! Keep your coolant level correct and they're no problem and very robust. I'm sure I've forgotten many things here and others might like to contribute?

I think Walter Henry is a really dignified and appropriate name for a Land Rover. I should qualify my Land Rover experience too by saying that I last worked on one "in anger" around 45 years ago! I personally never did a clutch on one but I did services and, more often, MOT repairs. I got very good at doing brake pipes and gas welding patch plates into rear cross members and other bits, the occasional snapped half shaft too. In particular I remember our MOT guy seemed to revel in failing them on oil leaks from the front swivel hubs (we called them Skulls) I remember quite well dismantling hubs, pulling driveshafts and undoing the ring of bolts so the skull could be replaced, doing that big oil seal that wiped the face of the skull and shimming up the swivel taper bearings in the hub. Happy carefree days before I started "managing" people! Oh, I also remember the first Toyota 4WD (a High Ace? pick up) which turned up in the workshop and the boss saying to me "take a look under that and tell me how we are going to sort that front axle" I was surprised to find the "skulls" were an integral welded part of the axle casing! A complete exchange axle being needed if the skulls were severely corroded. I'll never own one now and the ride quality would probably wreck my old body, but I have an awful hankering still to own an old short wheel base and if it had the lights in the grill that would be just sheer delight!

Kindest regards
Jock
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Old 04-09-2019   #11
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

Hi Jock,
Thanks for the extra info.
I will be having a wire brush and treat of the rear axle before giving it some stone chip paint. It is rusty but the spring cups seem reasonably solid.

I got the caliper cleaned and seems to be ok but only time will tell. It does have brand new pads which is good and the discs are good too. The rear drums are super rusty but seem solid also. If I get time I may wire brush and paint them when I do the rear axle.

I have managed to get the trans oil changed and done the engine oil and filter changed too. My front tyres are soooo noisy - Nexan somethings. I still might have a slightly noisy bearing but today when running an errand I drove on some newly laid smooth tarmac areas and the cabin noise dramatically reduced. Don't get me wrong its not Series Land Rover with TDi conversion noisy (I can't hear music on my earbud headphones!!) but still not good. Panda really needs 4 new tyres but may have to do with some good part worn branded tyres as the whole idea of this car is to run the car cheaply.

Land Rovers become an addiction. I have had a couple of Series 1's (the last one was the subject of a magazine article in Land Rover Owners International magazine; gist was hapless idiot buys wreck unseen on eBay and recommisions with little mechanical knowledge on his drive in all weathers). My current 2a indeed had the rusty 'skulls' and new quality new ones are a fortune so managed to buy some second hand hubs with nice condition swivels and strip them down then fit to my front axle (which has 3 inch wide front drums as it originally was a 6 cylinder and those drums are 120 each unless you fall lucky on eBay and get 2 for 80 and then sell the used ones for the same .) The ride on the LWB LR isn't too bad on 750 tyres so go on and have a go!!

Well hopefully I can get the gearbox sorted and back in before the worst of the weather returns but I do have quilted overalls!

Cheers

Toby


Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Regarding that little lug which can be so easily sheared off. It's part of the caliper carrier not the caliper itself so if you break it off you're probably going to be spending some time rooting around in scrap yards looking for one that can be saved (and if you find one it may well have a seized pin in it!) Just annoying.

I should say that all the Fiats we've owned have been petrols, my knowledge of the diesels is limited to what I read on here (the forum) and in my Haynes manuals. I buy most of my Fiat bits from Shop4parts and I'm very pleased with them and the quality of what they provide. Both our Panda and my boy's Punto (1.4 8 valve) are running on their Petronas syntium 3000 AV SAE 5w-40 to API SN spec. - It's just what they supply but a very good oil. These engines aren't exactly high tech or highly stressed so I think any reasonably good quality oil would make them happy. I'm very particular about transmission oils as they have to work for so long in a demanding environment. (I like to renew at around 50 to 60,000 miles on all my cars) So for these Fiats I buy Petronas Tutela transmission Technyx SAE 75w-85 to API GL4 plus spec. - again from S4p - This is specifically the oil Fiat specify for them and Petronas seem to be the only one doing a GL 4 plus spec (who knows what the "plus" is all about - I've got some ideas but that's for somewhere else) I also rather like Fuchs oils (Fuchs now supply the VAG "Quantum" oils - used to be Castrol) and I use them in the SEATS.

You mention the dreaded Rust word! I think it's generally true to say the bodywork is really quite well protected on these later cars. The 3 mark ones we've had all rusted horribly but whilst I was looking for - what turned out to be - Becky, all the cars I looked at (I was looking specifically for Dynamic Eco models so 2009/2010) were surprisingly good bodywise. Running gear was a different kettle of fish! They are particularly well known for rusting out sumps which can become porous and "weep" oil through the metal of the sump pan itself. Rear axles, specifically spring pans, need careful looking at and protecting. Do I remember correctly that it was Andy who stripped his axle out and sent it for a comprehensive blasting and treatment? A very interesting read. Also another of our friends (I think it was Portland Bill) procured a pattern made complete axle from an eBay vendor and swapped it over. He seems very pleased with the outcome and the price of these (probably far eastern made) axles are very affordable. I'm going to give my axle a good clean down and painting but when/if it throws in the towel it'll be one of these I'm going for. The only other thing (out of the ordinary run of rusty exhaust bits etc) is that the metal water pipe that runs along the front side of the engine behind the exhaust manifold/down pipe/Cat - it runs from the back of the water pump to the bottom radiator hose and on later engines also "collects" the return pipe from the heater - is prone to very localized corrosion. So it can look to be in pretty good overall condition but still be leaking! It also suffers from hardening of the rubber ring seal where it sits in the back of the water pump. This too can leak coolant often only when hot and pressurized. Keep a regular check on your coolant level. Of course all the usual things like leaky water pumps, heater matrix, radiator, etc, etc can happen but if you have an unexplained coolant loss it might well be this pipe or it's seal. Becky's looked pretty good but was just weeping slightly from the seal. I bought a complete pipe with seal from S4p and was glad I did as there was also a small leak from a bit of the pipe you could only see once it had been removed. Also these engines don't like getting too hot due to loss of coolant and will "bite" back by blowing their head gaskets just to spite you! Keep your coolant level correct and they're no problem and very robust. I'm sure I've forgotten many things here and others might like to contribute?

I think Walter Henry is a really dignified and appropriate name for a Land Rover. I should qualify my Land Rover experience too by saying that I last worked on one "in anger" around 45 years ago! I personally never did a clutch on one but I did services and, more often, MOT repairs. I got very good at doing brake pipes and gas welding patch plates into rear cross members and other bits, the occasional snapped half shaft too. In particular I remember our MOT guy seemed to revel in failing them on oil leaks from the front swivel hubs (we called them Skulls) I remember quite well dismantling hubs, pulling driveshafts and undoing the ring of bolts so the skull could be replaced, doing that big oil seal that wiped the face of the skull and shimming up the swivel taper bearings in the hub. Happy carefree days before I started "managing" people! Oh, I also remember the first Toyota 4WD (a High Ace? pick up) which turned up in the workshop and the boss saying to me "take a look under that and tell me how we are going to sort that front axle" I was surprised to find the "skulls" were an integral welded part of the axle casing! A complete exchange axle being needed if the skulls were severely corroded. I'll never own one now and the ride quality would probably wreck my old body, but I have an awful hankering still to own an old short wheel base and if it had the lights in the grill that would be just sheer delight!

Kindest regards
Jock
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Old 04-09-2019   #12
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

That top right picture really brings the memories back, thanks Toby. Did you buy them like that or was the pic taken after you'd been waving your magic wand over them. The "skull" - bottom right - looks very good from the little that can be seen of it. For those not in the know, its the outside of the spherical face that corrodes.

I got quite involved in small Citroens at one time, Mostly Dyanes and 2CVs. The earlier versions had drum front brakes (mounted on the gearbox so braking through the driveshafts) The fixed end of the shoes mounted to an eccentric fixed stop which had to be very carefully adjusted, by rotation, to get the linings presenting correctly to the drum face - a pain in the b** to do. I seem to remember doing this on early Land Rovers too? Although the brake backplate was conventionally mounted on the end of the axle. Actually the wee Citroens were a real engineering education. Many things being done in a uniquely "French" fashion. Wonderfully eccentric suspension system, 3.5mm brake lines with no flex hoses (the metal lines are coiled inside the hollow cross tubes to accommodate suspension movement) and unique flares with little rubber grommets for seals and tiny tube nuts. The earlier ones also had a unique driveshaft joint (FWD of course) instead of a Birfield type CV they had two Universal (crucifix type) joints, back to back, linked so they shared the angular displacement so doubling the angle achievable and the one joint cancelling out the RPM fluctuations of the other. Very clever. I had seen pictures of this in text books but this is the only real life application I've ever seen. Later cars had CVs. Once you got your brain realigned to the gallic way of doing things they were actually quite nice to work on, you could prop the bonnet up and unbolt the wings leaving the engine/transaxle just sitting on the chassis rails giving excellent access. I still have a hankering for an Acadiane. There's a fully restored one for sale on the coast road out towards North Berwick but it's got a 9,000 sticker in the window - so I don't think so.

Obsessions? Oh yes. Mine turned out to be, appropriately I suppose, being as how I'm a Scot, Hillman Imps. It all started when I was gifted a Husky (the imp based estate car version) which had failed it's MOT horrendously. I couldn't begin to make a list. The Husky version of the Imp was actually quite a rare car even back then so I decided to restore it. I bought a saloon - another MOT failure - intending to strip it but when I started in on it I realized it was actually far better than the Husky - I restored it as well in the end! In amongst all this I heard that a local Edinburgh garage, which was well known for fixing Imps, was closing down/changing owner (don't remember the exact circumstances) and they sold me a load of Imp stuff very cheap. I had to build an extension on my shed to store all the stuff as my garage was already full! I had 4 (maybe 5 if you counted up all the parts) engines, one being a worn out performance job with big valves and fancy cam etc. 3 transaxles, two complete sets of suspension wishbones, etc, etc, etc. So I know about obsessions! Now at 73 years young with lots of grandchildren I find my priorities rather changed. I'm still very much a car person and I look after the family cars (Honda Jazz, Fiats Punto and Panda, Vauxhall Astra Estate, and my own Ibiza ST which is 6 months out of warranty so now under my "wing" - Haynes have just brought out a manual for it, phew! Oldest boy has just sold his Fabia Scout and replaced it with a Kia Rio - 7 year warranty - so I'm just on emergency stand by with that one. I tend also to get "sucked in" by friends and neighbours when they run into problems. So I think taking in another "orphan" even if it was a desirable "Landy" is probably not going to happen.
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Old 04-09-2019   #13
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

Well you seem to be doing that busier in retirement thing that folk do.
I'm just coming to the end of shared parental leave looking after our baby boy (oldish dad at 47). It's been hard to get things done on the LR as I work on that hardstanding outside the front of the house so it's hard to get into a job and then pack all by stuff up at the drop of a hat when the boy needs attention.

The LR has a drum handbrake on the back of the transmission box. Fortunately that bits relatively easy to do but the inside of gearboxes us witchcraft to me. Usefully I have a mate who currently repairs commercial buses but was a Land Rover Master Technician until recently and knows pretty much everything.
I've always had odd cars mainly older mercs with high miles, everything from a 74 280ce to a Porsche built 500e with a 5litre 32 valve quadcam V8 (pretty quick) when I wasn't as poor!

My next LR job is to fit a diesel parking heater as lr's are notoriously crafty, cold with poor heating. These are Chinese copies of the Webasto heaters. If I can fit it it will allow me to fire it up by remote control 10 mins before I leave and it will be warm and cosy when needed. Help to clear the windows too! Would like to get it done before I return to work - just waiting to bench test and for the ammo box I'm going to fit it in.


My previous LR was a favourite and was gutted to have to sell but needed the money out to move house. If I win the lottery I will hunt it down and buy it back!


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Old 05-09-2019   #14
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

So where do I start?
At the moment
I have this little lot, all road legal apart from the Robin which is ooa due to some bodywork issues.

2009 Fiat Panda
2010 Microcar Mgo
1995 Renault Trafic 1 Elddis Eclipse Motorhome
1998 Reliant Robin Mk2 estate

Motorcycles
1984 HondaGL1200
2007 Honda NT700
2012 Royal Enfield bullet
along with wifes mobility scooter.
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2012 Royal Enfield 500 EFI Bullet
2007 Honda Deauville NT700ABS
2x 1984 GL1200 one with Palma Sidecar
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Old 06-09-2019   #15
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Re: What shared the drive with your panda?

Quote Originally Posted by 09 johno View Post
1998 Reliant Robin Mk2 estate

2012 Royal Enfield bullet
I've never really been into 3 wheelers and watching an apprentice try to drive one, disastrously, on to a 4 poster lift didn't help (well, maybe a Morgan if one came along) but I do have a "thing" for the Kitten - especially the estate - or maybe a Fox? A chap I know quite well - he lived in the flats opposite our house - used to run around in an SE5. I think the SE5 was the "prettiest" of Scimitars and always rather envied him. (I'd like one with a Rover V8 in it though but still looking standard from the outside).

With my love of old British 'bikes, you'll not be surprised when I say I "approve" of the Bullet.
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