Hi all, apologies if this is old stuff, does anyone have experience of running different tyres on back from front. I have an Arosa with 185/60 on the front and 205/75 on the rear. What i am looking to find out is if a panda 2008 4x4 can run with a difference in rubber sizes on front and back, without ill effect on the haldex working, irrespective of specific sizes. Why? I like the nose of a car to sit minimally lower, improving turn in, mpg and perceived sportiness. I am wondering if this may be possible in a 4x4 panda, or if the 4x4 system depends on the same tyre sizes front and back? Hope this makes sense? I can't find previous discussion on such a topic, but please refer me to any previous thread if this has been explored.

Danke!

Luck of the draw really with it only being a part time system, assuming yours is complete and works because it'll be a first! If you want to play it safe, get some lowering springs and just fit the fronts.

can't image the police / insurance being happy about this ?

Different circumferences on any ABS car will throw a tantrum. On a 4x4 it's likely to kill your diffs in a few miles. I wouldn't risk it

gr J

You'd have to get some coilovers or lowering springs to get this looks really
Not a good idea to find small tyre's on the car

The Haldex recognises the fronts turning faster that rear and locks up. It will not last long with odd wheels. The electronic version might cope better but I'd not be keen to test it.

Not a good idea for reasons stated by others.Also - turn-in is to do with geometry, putting lower profile tyres on the front in the hope of improving response doesn't sound sensible. Also, won't it look a bit weird?

Sorry, but if you need more sporty handling the 4x4 is the wrong car. It's intended to deal with rough roads and offroad. It will never handle like a 100HP.

You could fit lower suspension and a set of larger wheels with low profile tyres but be careful it doesn't end up looking like Granny in a mini skirt. Also remember that alloys with low profile tyres are more likely get buckled by bad roads.

DaveMcT said:

Sorry, but if you need more sporty handling the 4x4 is the wrong car. It's intended to deal with rough roads and offroad. It will never handle like a 100HP.

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Puppy, Please don't take my comments in the wrong way, One of the great things about being interested in cars is that different people have different takes on what is the way to do things and it enriches us all to think about and view other peoples cars.

However I do find your choice of car for what you seem to be trying to achieve to be a little bizarre? I've never owned a 4wd Panda but have had several 2wd ones and The 4wd version is known for being somewhat on the "sluggish" side performance wise. If you haven't already do a search on you tube for 4wd Pandas and you'll find some very very interesting machines, which look amazing, doing extraordinary things. Then again there are some really cool performance orientated machines - but they're mostly not 4wd.

Mind you - I rather like this one:



Or maybe you could aspire to something along these lines?



At the end of the day though, if you enjoy what you're doing then all the more power to your elbow I say.
Kind regards
Jock

The Panda 4x4 is off road capable with road handling to match.
It is not intended to be a performance 4x4 like the Audi TT or Quattro.

Thanks all for your input. All opinions respected, but has noone appeared to have done this to a Panda 4x4? Or any part-time 4wd electric differs in general? I have had my faithful Stilo for 16 years and ran bigger tyres on the rear, winter tyres all round since I got her, but the ABS has not protested in all these years. Bobbies have stopped me three times in all that time, but never objected about the different sized tyres and she passed her MOT's with no complaints? The same situation exists with my pocket rocket Arosa as mentioned. I think if I was looking for the Panda to handle like a "girlie" TT, maybe I would have bought a TT instead? I did say "perceived", sportiness, but didn't really think about lowering the Panda, would be a bit silly when it is a 4x4 for using off tar 'slightly'. If any thing, would it not be better to pop in lifted springs at the rear rather than lower at the front. 'Granny in a mini-skirt", that's a funny thought. It reminds me of the 100hp Panda, the flat arse, it's a faster "Pope mobil". In my experience, running the Stilo with the factory sized tyres on front, but bigger 0n the rear has improved mpg by 5-6mpg on average, also, the turn in is slightly sharper, but i opted for 4 wheel alignment, so the front geometry has a different setup anyway. The only thing I was not sure of with the Panda, was if such a mod would be tolerated by the 4x4, which works beautifully BTW, I know this is not tolerated by 4x4 systems that are 'hardcore', like older Toyata Land cruisers, L200, or Troopers, not sure about 'softcore' 4x4's like new Rangies, X5's, where electronic gadgets control torque. The Panda 4x4 slots into the "softcore", 4wd too, I feel, well in standard form anyway. Does no one tinker their cars anymore? Upgrading, styling, tarting up? Do people not hold onto their cars nowadays? I must be getting old.lol
Jock! Love the videos, cheers for those. The Panda 4x4 is for small rough roads up in Scotlands Highlands, for speed I've got my old pal the Stilo, and for proper rough stuff, I've the v10 Touareg. (It is a brute.lol)

If you run tyres with the same rolling DIAMETER the 4x4 and ABS systems will have no problems. You could therefore have wider tyres with smaller side wall ratio on one axle and narrow tyres with taller side ratio on the other. You would need to do the calculations.

However, the Panda is not a heavy car, tyres that are too wide will not automatically improve grip because the larger contact area reduces pressure per square inch/cm. There is a caveat - wide tyres with blocky off-road tread would have wider gaps between blocks so actual contact pressure would be the same as smaller tyres. However these would be noisy on road with poor tread life.


The 100HP uses 195-45-15 tyres though it will work with 195-50-15 but these are is big as the car can take without body mods and even then the back can sometimes rub the wheel arch liner. I already have a bucked whel so can say the smaller side walls do give the wheels a hard time. They "might" look better but would not be practical on a 4x4.


As for running different width tyres on a Panda - even with the same rolling radii, I really do not see the point. The basic 13" tyres grip well enough on the 1.2 so some 14" winter tyres should be more than good enough on a 4x4.

This Panda has 15" alloys, can't remember the tyres sizes off by heart, what I was looking into was having say 50mm wall on front and 65mm wall on rear tyre, just for example, proper sizes aside irrespective of tyre width and same size alloy all round, would you say the 4x4 system would protest this? This is what im thinking myself, that would happen. Think my initial post has gotten lost in translation, but to have the nose sit lower on the 4x4, would be more of a case of lifting the rear, rather than lowering the front, and leaving the same tyres all round. What I suppose I didn't specify was it was the differing depth of tyre wall front and rear, with all other factors being the same, ie width, rim, speed rating etc. I was wondering about, not sure if this clarifies things better. The Panda would be no worst of a rear lift anyways, it doesn't take much weight to sink it.
Many thanks for your input.

Well... Getting lost in translation might be more my thing, but it will probably kill your diffs if jou put 65 % of the width on the rear wheels and 50 (again % of the width) series on the frontaxle.
Especially if it's only about the looks. Then you could use longer springs or thicker rubber on top and bottom of the springs.

gr J

It's a 4x4 so both ends will need the same tyres not only to look correct but also to grip correctly. except for the worst surfaces most of the power goes to the fronts. Rears only get drive when a front slips.

65% tyres on 16" wheels will raise the gear ratio far too much and will foul the wheel arches. There is no point having high gears on a part time 4x4 like the Panda. It's your money but it will not work as you are hoping.


As said, 195-50-15 on the 100HP is as much as it can take. The speedo is now spot on so any reading above what the speed limit says = you are speeding. That was going up just 5%. That size wheel and tyre on a 4x4 would have you getting the rims straightened every other week. Steels would perhaps be ok but alloys wont cope.