Love the extension funnel. Back in the seventies, when Renault had the 4, 5, 12, and 16, there was a 'special tool' for filling their cooling systems. It was a copper funnel, on a long tube, with a filler cap connector at the bottom, effectively a professional version of Jock's 'tool'.

I usually just stick the front wheels up onto the ramps, and then bleed at the rad and heater hoses, where the bleed screws are. Seems to have worked so far.

portland_bill said:

Love the extension funnel. Back in the seventies, when Renault had the 4, 5, 12, and 16, there was a 'special tool' for filling their cooling systems. It was a copper funnel, on a long tube, with a filler cap connector at the bottom, effectively a professional version of Jock's 'tool'.

I usually just stick the front wheels up onto the ramps, and then bleed at the rad and heater hoses, where the bleed screws are. Seems to have worked so far.

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Not quite the same thing but I remember a "bleeding" problem we had with the brakes on a Simca back in the late 70's (or there abouts). The Simca was a make we rarely saw in the workshop and not a brand I liked. I seem to remember the FWD 1100 was an absolute sod to change points on! (Transverse engine with the distributor hard up against the radiator!)

Anyway on this one we'd fitted a new brake master cylinder but, despite our best efforts we could not get a good pedal on it (l say we because by the time the day was out I think everyone in the workshop had had a go at bleeding it!) We were sure there was air trapped somewhere but just couldn't figure it out! - power bleeders were rare and expensive in those days, we didn't have one - Anyway going home time arrived and, as I was shop foreman, the boss (who himself had spent many years on the tools) and I were last to leave. As we were locking up he said to me "stick it's front wheels on that ramp and put it's front end up in the air overnight" There was great hilarity from the lads next day as they came in to this sight but it changed to incredulity when I let the ramp down and gently drove the car to a parking place only to find a perfect nice hard brake pedal. We guess the trapped air found its way out through the recuperating port back into the reservoir but the level was hardly any different to the day before? I suppose it doesn't take much air to give a spongy pedal though does it?

That car got the longest and most thorough road test I've ever done with a full, on ramp, inspection afterwards!

The Fiat FIRE engine WILL NOT TOLERATE LOW COOLANT.

Run the engine to normal temperature with the coolant bottle top removed. Use the bleed screw on the heater hose before and after and this should allow any air to escape. Top up with the correct coolant.

The bleed screw is plastic. If it snaps off (quite common) there will be no escape of fluid kidding you that it's been bled of air. You can work the fragment into the hose with a small pointed tool and fit an M6 stainless steel screw.

Motorbike brakes can be hard to bleed. I really don't know why but they seem to trap fine bubbles. The fix is to tie the brake lever to the handlebar and turn the bars so the hoses rise all the way to the master cylinder. Then leave it over night and the spongy brake will be solved.

It's the same idea as parking a car with the front end up a ramp.

portland_bill said:

Love the extension funnel. Back in the seventies, when Renault had the 4, 5, 12, and 16, there was a 'special tool' for filling their cooling systems. It was a copper funnel, on a long tube, with a filler cap connector at the bottom, effectively a professional version of Jock's 'tool'.

I usually just stick the front wheels up onto the ramps, and then bleed at the rad and heater hoses, where the bleed screws are. Seems to have worked so far.

Click to expand...

I suppose I'm going a bit off the original topic but. It does follow on from your post P.B.

Unlike many of my contemporaries, who pretty much universally disliked Renault's, I almost liked them. When I did my "stint" on car sales one customer approached us with an early 20, TL I think? (the "unloved" one with the underpowered Renault 16 engine) The deal was going to fall through as the boss would only allow me to give "sweeties" for it. The car, although old, looked lovely and drove beautifully. I could not fault it. Our third child was about to put in an appearance and our existing car, a Citroen Dyane, whilst having many useful features as a family car was beginning to really get me down because it was so slow. So I made the guy what I felt was a fair offer and he took it. We had that car for a number of years. I think the most expensive repair was a new exhaust! Great motorway cruiser and not too bad fuel consumption as long as you didn't hammer it, terribly sluggish acceleration, incredibly comfortable seats and soft suspension - it was like driving along sitting in your living room couch! (it had the longest front suspension springs I've ever seen. I had to make up a special extra long spring compressor!) Also cavernous luggage capacity.

I liked the 4 & 12 not so much the 5 or 16. Wasn't there a mid engined V6 turbo version of the 5 though? I could have probably enthusiastically killed myself in one of those! I remember a nightmare of a repair involving the OSR torsion bar/suspension mount, on a 4 I think it was, (a not unusual fault to find) which did not go well and we never attempted another! I also remember the boss asking me to "nip out" and check that Renault on the forecourt for a cooling system leak. As I approached it I did myself think it was a Renault 12 but on closer inspection it turned out to be a Dacia Denem! - never seen one before or since! (Although you really can't turn round now-a-days without falling over one of it's more modern relatives!)

So, Renault's? I've almost loved some and absolutely hated others! - but that's life isn't it?

DaveMcT said:

The Fiat FIRE engine WILL NOT TOLERATE LOW COOLANT.

Run the engine to normal temperature with the coolant bottle top removed. Use the bleed screw on the heater hose before and after and this should allow any air to escape. Top up with the correct coolant.

The bleed screw is plastic. If it snaps off (quite common) there will be no escape of fluid kidding you that it's been bled of air. You can work the fragment into the hose with a small pointed tool and fit an M6 stainless steel screw.

Click to expand...

Indeed I stripped almost the top off the plastic screw, it is of really poor quality or design.
Preventive placement of a stainless steel bolt has my preference. But will it be air tight? (Without any rubber gasket or so?)

I will try bleeding again this afternoon.

The bleed screw snapped on my brother's Alfa. We tried to drill out the fragment but it just screwed into the hose and vanished. Such a tiny fragment of plastic would do no harm so we simply used a stainless screw we had in the tool box. We probably found a fibre washer as well but PTFE tape will do the same job.

So I was trying to bleed the system when I forgot that I have a power (brake and clutch) bleeder. I compared the coolant filling cap and the cap (42mm) of the brake fluid reservoir and it looked like a match. So I took my power bleeder of the shelf and tried it on, and it succeeded. I pumped up the pressure to 1 bar (15 psi) and opened up the bleeding screw, I then started the engine and repeated the procedure.

Then I removed everything and filled up about a teacup of coolant to max.
After that I took the car for a spin around town, I only heared some minor air bubbles once, but they didn't came back since. I think everything went well, and I will hope everything will hold as well.
This friday we will take the car for a longer trip, and hopefully it will be a trouble-free journey.

Sounds great - pumping up the expansion tank is the same as (only better than) using a long filler pipe.


Air in the coolant will only bleed from the heater bleed screw when it's not flowing around the system. When engine is running everything gets thrown straight on by.

The power bleeding worked great, all air is now removed.
Took the car today to work, and it just drove as good as always.

For the people whom are interested in the power bleeder, I have the Sealey VS820 now for a couple of months. I was tired of bleeding the brake by the pedal of my hobby car, which is difficult to bleed, and always stayed a bit spongy. After one try with the power bleeder it was directly a hard pedal.

I got it from Ebay for about 45 quid:

I also refreshed the brake fluid yesterday of the Panda, which was not done when the brake pads and discs were changed, but that's another story.


The story: (in really short)
My parents bought the car new in 2011, last November (2017) we bought the car from them, as they wanted the newer Panda 312. So we got the car for cheap with only 74.000 km on it.
I serviced the car and replaced the exhaust as the outer shell was getting bad and the rusted parts started resonating and vibrating.

This summer we took the Panda for over 4000 km long road trip in two weeks from Netherlands through Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Italy, Croatia, Bosnia and back.
In Slovenia the car just died on us, so the battery just went flat and we had to replaced it.
Then in Croatia the left front break started to squeak, after a day I checked and the brake lining of both pads was completely gone, and the disc was also already destroyed. Luckily the owner of the small campsite know a good mechanic and we could fix it for cheap with quality parts. So we had only a couple of hours delay on or journey. The thing is that the brake patch were replaced only 2 years before, and more stranger is that the pads on the right-side looked like new. It seemed to be that the piston/caliper was stuck, my dad told me they had a similar issue on the same side 2 year ago, so I think the garage never fixed (or never noticed) the stuck piston/caliper. Strange thing is that the car never seemed to break bad or pull one way, so we never noticed the issue.

Uneven wear on brake pads means both calipers must be rebuilt. If the problem persists it need new hydraulic piston/seals (a specialist job) or replacement calipers.

I drive my 100HP every year to Croatia (Sibenik area, south of Zadar) with boattrailer. Big fun for me and lot of stunned faces when people get overtaken (uphill) by a Panda with trailer
Calipers and other brakeparts that are stuck at home tend to get worse in the heat overthere.
Luckily mechanics overthere still repair instead of just replace.
Fresh brakefluid is always a good idea.
I'm from Noord-Holland. Where are you?

gr J

Both calipers had been disassembled, cleaned and put back together with some grease.
Initially the new pads were difficult to place, there was a lot of rust/sediment in the recesses for the brake pads, which were removed which a small grinder.
After it was cleaned thorough the pads fitted nicely in the calipers.


PS. I am living in the North of the Netherlands (Groningen), and born in Alkmaar

On the Punto HGT (which had 4 piston calipers) I had one side rebuilt by a specialist as new ones were very costly. When that type begins to stick, there is no option but to fit a set of new piston seals - if you can get a repair kit.

The Panda has more sensible brakes. Replacement hydraulic side is £40 or a new seal kit for under £20. Slide bolts are under £7. Parts costs are very reasonable.

helhond said:

...and born in Alkmaar

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Small world But that's holland!
Fortunately the mechanic in HR corrected what your parents in NL should have done.

gr J