General 4x4 Buying Advice

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General 4x4 Buying Advice

buste

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Hello!

I'm looking to buy a second car for Winter use. My German RWD car was frankly dangerous and scary last Winter! I'm hearing great things about the 4x4 Panda and the Mk3 is in my price range.

Can anyone offer any advice in what to look out for in used examples?

I've heard the rear axle should be checked for rust? Is this something that will be obvious just by looking underneath the car?

Also how reliable is the 4x4 system? Does this fail in older cars?

Thanks for any advice! (possible future owner :slayer: )
 
The 4x4 uses a different rear suspension set up than the FWD version.
I have not seen any reports of problems with them like the beams on the FWD cars, but I am not saying don't check it properly.

The major issue on FWD cars are the lower spring seats themselves AND where they attach to the rest of the rear beam axle.

These versions are getting on a bit now and we've seen some issues with the prop shaft centre support bearing wearing out, this causes some thumping and knocking from the driveline, it's possible to recon it if you know where to go.

The actual 4x4 system changed for some models.
Climbings used a viscous type coupling on the nose of the rear diff, I've seen a thread where this needed reconditioning (think a Land Rover specialist did it).
It's engagement is totally automatic.

Later (New) models and all Panda Cross models use an electro pneumatic coupling, these engage automatically, but also have some form of manual control inside the car. (button or dial)

I've seen one of two that have suffered with solenoid or wiring issues to the pneumatic actuator, though this is few and far from common.

The rest is pretty much basic used car stuff, pay particular attention to the suspension and steering.
The PAS is electric and they have been know to fail.
Steering warning lights, tugging one way or losing assistance altogether may be just the battery, but it could be the motor or torque sensor as well.

Suspension parts tend to rust, like the springs or wear out, like rear shock bushes.
A bit of clonking is probably expected, though it's not expensive to sort out.

The petrol Climbings use the 1.2, 60hp, FIRE engine, it's pretty reliable and solid if serviced properly, but it's worth noting the gearing is quite low and the engine isn't that grunty, so it's possible it'll have had a bit of a mean life, thrashed from the lights as 0-60 is awfully slow for a modern car and MPG won't be sparkling.
It's a non interference cambelt engine so it's safe.

The Cross (and some european Climbing models) uses the 1.3 Multijet diesel, this is prone to a few common issues like all modern diesels. EGR, Turbo wastegate jamming, injector and pump wear, I think it also has a dual mass flywheel.

It has more grunt and MPG should be much better, but there is a possible trade off with reliability (repair cost as well, they aren't too diy friendly) and all but the latest, cleanest diesels will soon be ushered off the road by legislation.
Poor servicing tends to cause the cam chain to stretch, jump or fail, seen lots of this in the Doblo vans with the same engine.

Whichever you go for, be patient.
There aren't that many around, but you really need to hold out for a good one.
Jumping at something a bit worse for wear because you don't know when the next one will show up will likely end up costing you.

Probably out of budget, but the newer model 4x4 is a much better car all around.
With it's clever power/traction management system it's pretty peerless when things get tricky.
 
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Do you really need a 4x4?

Our ordinary 1.2 Dynamic was great last year in all sorts of nasty stuff. So good, that I may get a set of skinny steel wheels to see the 100HP through winter. The issue was never starting off - apart from really steep hills that was always possible. Stopping on the other hand was "interesting" at times and would be no better in a 4x4.

This morning in heavy rain on M5 my 100HP was aquaplaning (tyres are in good condition). Skinny standard tyres cope a lot better even when nearly worn out.
 
Do you really need a 4x4?

Our ordinary 1.2 Dynamic was great last year in all sorts of nasty stuff. So good, that I may get a set of skinny steel wheels to see the 100HP through winter. The issue was never starting off - apart from really steep hills that was always possible. Stopping on the other hand was "interesting" at times and would be no better in a 4x4.

This morning in heavy rain on M5 my 100HP was aquaplaning (tyres are in good condition). Skinny standard tyres cope a lot better even when nearly worn out.

My 100HP on standard tyres was THE worst thing ever in snow. Low ground clearance was also an issue in the white stuff. In the dry and even wet another thing altogether. I used Toyo Proxes and never had any problems in the wet so would well recommend them.
 
My 100HP on standard tyres was THE worst thing ever in snow. Low ground clearance was also an issue in the white stuff. In the dry and even wet another thing altogether. I used Toyo Proxes and never had any problems in the wet so would well recommend them.


I would expect that to be the case.

Mine has 1/2 worn but perfectly reasonable(?) tyres but last week in heavy rain on M5 it was aquaplaning. At one point, bad enough to spin a front wheel. Thankfully, I wasn't turning (cornering) or trying to stop.

For the winter I'll be getting a set of steel wheels with 155 tyres. The wife's Panda with 155 x 13 wheels/tyres has never been an issue in heavy rain and was no trouble in the snow.
 
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