Hi all,

I'm new here, but I've done a search to try to find this issue before posting

2007 1.2 Panda - I know she's leaking from the radiator, and have some k-seal on the way. It's a short run to work so I've been topping her up and doing the run without any real issue for this week.

Last night I had to do a similar short run, but the engine was still warm from coming home from work. Topped her up to be safe and went on my merry way. Temp was about 3/4 way up, then dropped down to normal - as it came down, she started making an engine rattle noise, and the engine was obviously overheating - yet the gauge sat at normal. Had to really nurse her home, the engine was obviously very hot, but the gauge just wasn't showing it.

Any ideas, please? Ta in advance!

Hello and welcome.

The 1.2 FIRE is a generally reliable and robust engine, but it extremely intolerant of being run low on coolant; HG failure is the usual result. Often this will happen before the temperature gauge registers the overheat.

Regular coolant checks are essential with this engine.

Radiator leak sealers generally do more harm than good and often make a bad situation worse. In days past, I'd suggest the best thing to do with it is to pour it down the drain, but in today's more environmentally conscious times, I'd recommend taking it straight to a recycling facility that accepts liquids.

If you have a FIRE engine that's losing coolant, it's extremely important to stop driving the car until you've fixed the problem properly. I'd say 95% of mechanical problems with this engine are down to cooling system failure.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that the damage hasn't already been done.

The best advice I can give you is not to drive it again until the leak has been traced and the cooling system has been properly fixed. Thermostat housings and radiators are two common failure points; fortunately both can be had cheaply from any of the usual sources.

Many thanks - so, if I'm reading this right, even though the temp is reading normal she could already be out of water at that point?

ReBorne said:

Many thanks - so, if I'm reading this right, even though the temp is reading normal she could already be out of water at that point?

Click to expand...

Yes - by the time the temperature sensor registers the overheat, the damage may already have been done.

Well, I've just tried starting her to make sure she was ok in general and the water is definitely coming out of the radiator, so new one needed there. From my experience the engine itself sounds fine, and there's nothing untoward coming out of anywhere - no smoke or anything, and no unusual noise.
BUT as soon as I started her, the engine revs went racing.
Searches for this are pointing towards the idle control valve?

As the coolant is lost, it is replaced with air or combustion gas.
As the air/gas lock builds it tends to sit around the thermostat which is normally where the temp sender is, the temp sender can't read the hot air/gas as well as it can the liquid coolant.
One of the things that happens when there is a failure is the temp is seen to rise towards or over hot, then drops rapidly, normally down to cold, this is when its normally to late to save damage on most alloy headed engines, the problem is that most see the temp drop thinking that everything has magically reverted back to normal!
Because your temp didn't go back to 0, there is obviously 'some' liquid left in the system, whether it was enough to save gasket/head warping issues on your engine is another matter...…
Good luck

ReBorne said:

ming out of anywhere - no smoke or anything, and no unusual noise.
BUT as soon as I started her, the engine revs went racing.
Searches for this are pointing towards the idle control valve?

Click to expand...

Or the coolant temp sender, the ECU uses this as part of the calculation to determine the amount of fuel to inject.
considering the issue you have just had, it might be worth checking the sender first.

ReBorne said:

Well, I've just tried starting her to make sure she was ok in general and the water is definitely coming out of the radiator, so new one needed there. From my experience the engine itself sounds fine, and there's nothing untoward coming out of anywhere - no smoke or anything, and no unusual noise.
BUT as soon as I started her, the engine revs went racing.
Searches for this are pointing towards the idle control valve?

Click to expand...

dont use the k-seal.. :yuck:

just change the Radiator..

my heater matrix leaked took out 2 x head gaskets in 6 weeks.:bang:

as you've been advised.. you'll get very little warning of low coolant / overheating.

My advice.. don't drive for more than 10 mins until a new rad is fitted.
to change it you'll need 2 new Worm-drive hose clips.. or the tool for re-using the originals,

unless your car has aircon.. it's a relatively simple job.

Charlie

Once the coolant has been that low its overheated

You can't just top up.

You also have to bleed the system.


Otherwise the air is trapped air in the system it will expand and push all your new coolant out as the engine heats up


You will also need to check the oil level. I suspect its been that hot some will have boiled off.


Easy enough to fix it properly rather than sticking a plaster over the problem for it to fall off and bit you back later.

Thanks guys. I should be fine changing the radiator, I could do one on the old style Mini in 20 minutes start to finish

I really do appreciate the help here, and sorry if I'm being a pain. All of my experience is with older cars before the new fangled electronic trickery came in, so mechanically I can do stuff once I know where I'm working.

I've tried Google/images and youtube with no real joy.

Is the temp sensor the one on the back right of the carb, or the one located under the battery with the wire that goes to the little loom for the fan? That one makes more sense.

(I currently have the battery disconnected for an hour to see if it resets it as I read in another thread).

Cheers!

*edit* oil level is fine, thankfully

Progress!!

Disconnecting battery did nothing.

However, when I disconnect the electrical plug at the back right hand side of the carb - it has one of the yellow clip things to stop it coming loose, purple inside and about 6 connections (I haven't sussed linking to a picture yet :| ), the revs went to normal apart from the odd hiccup. Question : what the flip have I disconnected?!?

I'm gonna have to invest in a Haynes, there's so little info on this car on the interwebs

To post pics..

Use ADVANCED REPLY

Click on the paperclip icon.. next to SMILEY

Then add a link to the image.
Sorted.


Your FIRE engine has been around for 20 years.
Any of the forums GUIDEs will give you the same relvant info regarding refilling : bleeding the coolant.

In my experience the 8 valve motors are relatively easy. Charlie

Do a compression test. The radiator is even easier to replace while the cylinder head is removed for repair.


The joint face will almost certainly need a VERY light skim. Also check the inlet manifold is not damaged - it's plastic.