Well, received my Italian Box diesel tuning box from Italy today, fitted it with the standard settings and there is a noticably huge difference when it come on boost!

I got shot forward like illy-o and was impressed, only one prolem....

Dont think the standard mjet panda clutch can take the torque increase as i got clutch slip if i planted the accelerator. Only for 2 seconds and then the revs fell back down and accelerated as normal.

Adjusted the box down and still slightly get it if i go full throttle

My panda only has 38k miles on it so wondering if it actually is ready for a clutch anyway or the box just makes waaay too much power for the standard clutch?

Anybody else had experiences with these boxes on a 1.3 mjet?

If my clutch is on the way out, does anyody know of an uprated clutch unit available or should i just fit a quality unit like Bosch or LUK?

There are lots of rumours about the mjet being detuned for the Panda gearbox but I dont think there is any proof. (maybe on one of the threads somewhere) It is probably for certain parts of the box as much as the clutch if there is a limit.

A new clutch might help but at 38000 yours shouldnt be too bad, its likely you should be able to get uprated parts but probably from Italy again.

Good news you have found the power but not so good that you cant really use it!

First things first, have you tried removing the box and testing the clutch again?
Is it on it's way out or can it not handle the extra power?

Some cars engine and gearboxes are closely matched for power and as manufacturers reuse componants in different models it could be it's already near it's limit anyway.

You might be shocked to know that fiat and other car manufacturers spend millions on setting these cars up ,things like wear on gearboxes etc ,so dont be surprised when you play about with the engines output and things like the clutch etc start to give up.Drive shafts and CV joints are another thing that fail when you start to play around with the output of the engine.

Some manufacturers and I think Fiat would be one, don't over engineer a lot of parts so as soon as start increasing the power things will break.

To give an example, in the 70s, Ford's Escort rally cars used virtually no standard parts, whereas the equivalent Vauxhall Chevette HS would use a lot more stock parts because they could take the abuse.

I've had quite a lot of Toyotas and for example I could increase engine power from 122bhp to 182bhp and still run a stock gearbox, clutch and driveshafts, no problem, this would include trackdays too. So Toyota (at least in the 80s + 90's) really over engineered their parts which was great news when you went modifying.

On my current car, the transmission can take 200bhp, but my car has only around 140bhp, so there is a big margin built in. I think with cheaper cars this margin is a lot less.

I dont think BluPanda is actually complaining, more of an observation and what can he do to sort it out. There is no reason why slightly uprated components cant give the car a decent life. The Puntos/Ypsilons/Ideas/500s run this engine at 85-105bhp in a fairly similar sized car so a transplant wouldnt be too far out.
The 500 Abarth actually runs a 5speed box rather than the 6 of the standard 1.4 as it is tougher so maybe that would go in fairly easily.

There are a few guys on here who modify the cars and/or have quite a historical knowledge. You can try RallyCinq, he seems to have plenty of technical info on improvements.

Fiat "engineer" to a price now.Things in the motor industry has been very hard over the last few years..But like you have said about the vauxhall HS etc had great stock parts.

Thanks for the replies guys

Im not complaining at all, i just think its a bit poor that the parts are made to a certain price and can give out with the slightest of tweaking.

Ive been modding cars for years, fiats included, which i had a heavily modded seicento which held the power increase well, but im bit shocked at the newer fiat built quality

Ive removed the box for now and will try it again on the run to work tomorrow and see how it is. If it doesnt slip then i guess ill just have to settle for standard power but concentrate on the bodywork/wheels/suspension upgrade side, but if it still slip then thre maybe the possibility that the clutch was going and the box has now highlighted the problem which wasnt there before!

Just gotta see though if thats the case, if somewhere out there there is an upgraded clutch for the mjet somewhere :chin:

Does anyone know if the clutch and gearbox on a 70hp 1.3 mjet is the same as the 95bhp model?

the ratios in an abarth box would be completely wrong for a diesel panda

306maxi said:

the ratios in an abarth box would be completely wrong for a diesel panda

Click to expand...

Doesn't the diesel Panda use the same 5-speed as the petrol-engined cars, but with a changed final drive ratio?

That should be a reasonably easy conversion, I have no idea how costly though.

Hmmm, may have to look into any differences in the mounting points etc.

Im sure i read somewhere they use the same box so it should just be a staright swap, but knowing my luck it'll prob not be that easy

UPDATE: took panda for a spin without the box, now no slip

For now ill leave it as is until i can do some research into the clutches and gearboxes, but instead ill try to fit my newly aquired BMC CDA......now THATS gonna be a job and a half looking at space and available places to route the cold air feed!!

ivantate said:

There are lots of rumours about the mjet being detuned for the Panda gearbox but I dont think there is any proof.

Click to expand...

Identical parts used in 500.

306maxi said:

the ratios in an abarth box would be completely wrong for a diesel panda

Click to expand...

Actually not bad at all. 1st and 2nd are the same with 3rd, 4th and 5th only 10% lower on the Abarth 500 box.

KozmoNaut said:

Doesn't the diesel Panda use the same 5-speed as the petrol-engined cars, but with a changed final drive ratio?

Click to expand...

Same casework and some parts, but the diesel boxes are "reinforced" using FIAT's words (known as C514R instead of C514) They have torque ratings as high as the C510 boxes, like the Abarth box for example according to FPT documents I read (which doesn't mean they are the same strength in other ways BTW, which is why heavier cars don't use them).

my punto jtd done exactly the same thing, i could make it slip even with a new clutch.

the problem is the torque increase is massive, therefore a slightly worn clutch just cannot handle it!

blupanda said:

Does anyone know if the clutch and gearbox on a 70hp 1.3 mjet is the same as the 95bhp model?

Click to expand...

Ignoring 4x4 modifications, all Pandas use the C514 box. The 95BHP engine in the 500 uses the "Abarth" box though which demonstrates how marginal the C514 is. Just a couple of hundred kilos more and FIAT drop the C514. Perhaps not a surprise that you are having problems after all.

I am still researching putting an Abarth T-Jet engine in my Panda and had planned to try to use a reinforced C514 that I have and an uprated clutch. There is little precedent for these mods, so this thread has at least given me an indication that the diesel clutch ain't all that and it is a bit larger than the one I was going to use!

My apologies, late in reading this thread

I fitted a tuning box at Christmas (four months ago) and immediately noticed much improved performance PLUS better fuel economy. Obviously not economy if I drove flat out all the time....

After a week or so it became apparent that hard acceleration in third, particularly on inclines, produced a few seconds of high revs and no go. In other words, clutch slip. Rather disappointing at 50K given that the car has been driven very sedately the previous 49,990 miles. FWIW, we've never replaced a clutch before 90K on any of our other cars.

Rather than disconnect the tuning box, I reset it to its lowest limit for a few days. Hey presto, no clutch slip.
Back to its standard setting: hard acceleration=momentary clutch slip.

So the last couple of months it's been back to fairly sedate driving again - the whole intention of the tuning box anyway was to improve what I considered dismal economy for a small diesel. The extra oomph is still there if needed for occasional overtaking, and it's usually ok as long as not too hard, and not up a steep hill !

Other than that, the clutch is operating just fine, and in my honest opinion IS probably engineered down to the lowest torque it was expected to endure. Gearbox seems just fine.......

By the way, winter period fuel economy rose from low/mid 50's to just over 60mpg. Now the weather is warmer it does a fairly constant 66/67 - a big improvement over its earlier high fifties.

Mileage and fuel input logged from 12 miles, before anyone shouts 'trip computer'

Just as a matter of interest, is the MJet fitted with a Dual Mass Flywheel?

Hi Goudrons, no i dont think it is, not enough power to warrant one.

Trimdoner, i think i might give the box another go then but start from the lowest setting and work my way up slowly till i start to notice slip and then back it off a little.

I must say, from the short time i had the box on i did notice that mpg was improved somewhat, but my main aim for the box was to get a bit more ooomph off the line, overtaking etc.

My main worry though is that if i leave it on its setting that doesnt appear to cause slip, there may be a small amount of slip there anyway which will prematurely wear the clutch anyway.

Ah, its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other though, cant have power without losing something else i suppose!

How are you working out the MPG with the box attached?

I run a similar box on my Diesel Jag and it overstates the Trip computers MPG reading by quite a margin!

This site has been helpful to me as he's owned a diesel Jag, but the information would be similar to all common rail diesel engines. Interesting stuff about boosting MAF signals.
http://tuning-diesels.com/

This may interest you owners with DPF's and how to disable it!
http://energytuning.co.uk/

Pump injector problems, good diy back leak test info and problem matrix.
http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/diesel-engine-smoke.php

Goudrons said:

How are you working out the MPG with the box attached?

Click to expand...

Same way as I worked it out before th box was fitted.

Using a standard Excel spreadsheet:
1: Input fuel quantity in litres e.g 29.19
2: Divide by 0.219969 to convert to gallons
3: Subtract current mileage from mileage at previous fill-up
4: Divide mileage covered by gallons from step 2
= mpg

On the odd occasions it doesn't get brimmed, I just add that fuel to the next complete fill up, i.e. the calculations are only ever done brim-to-brim.
Trip computer almost always shows 1-2mpg over what I calculate.

Each occasion is dated, and the outputs give me mpg over that tankfull, overall mpg, how much I've spent on diesel in total since new plus other running costs are looged such as tyres, service, insurance and anything else that costs me money.

You can easily get an uprated "Fast Road" clutch for our Pandas from CG Motorsports. I bought one for my supercharged petrol 4x4 (+25%) and it was very good value at about £150.

See here: http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk...nda+Nuovo+&part_no=Find+Part+Number&x=41&y=19

That'll sort it I suspect!

Phil G