Technical Heavy Clutch

[Shuggie]

I just took my 2009 Panda 1.2 Dynamic to J R Dain Transmission in Norwich, to ask them about a curious noise which they assured me was not anything to be alarmed about. But, the chap said that my clutch pedal was unusually heavy for a Panda and its biting point was not great either.

I did replace the clutch slave cylinder a couple of months back, and that did improve clutch operation, banishing the common squeak, but the pedal has always been rather heavy.

Bar the hydraulics, what usually causes a heavy clutch on these Pandas? My car has done around 60k miles so will presumably be on its original clutch. Changing the clutch does not look particularly challenging nor expensive, so I plan to have a go myself, at the same time changing the clutch fork and bushings which I am told usually need replacing.

Any thoughts or recommendations on clutch replacement parts would be appreciated, particularly regarding brands to go for/avoid.

 

[irc]

Heavy clutch is often a sign of clutch nearing end of life.
LUK are good, but currently hard to find.
Valeo are original equipment, and work well - some people think they give a nicer "feel" than LUK ones.
I always check clutch fork and bushes, but mot of the time they are fine. However, as your clutch has been heavy for a while its possible the bushes will be worn from the extra force required.
When changing clutch, be aware that the input shaft seal may need changing, and possibly the input shaft bearing. (Good posts on here about how to do this)
There are quite a few posts on here about seals starting to leak after a clutch change (but people generally only post about problems, so there must be many that never start leaking). At the very least, check its not leaking now, and that there is no side-to-side movement on the input shaft. It's a real pain to have to do it all over again because the clutch plate got contaminated with oil. (Been there, done that).

 

[Shuggie]

Heavy clutch is often a sign of clutch nearing end of life.
LUK are good, but currently hard to find.
Valeo are original equipment, and work well - some people think they give a nicer "feel" than LUK ones.
I always check clutch fork and bushes, but mot of the time they are fine. However, as your clutch has been heavy for a while its possible the bushes will be worn from the extra force required.
When changing clutch, be aware that the input shaft seal may need changing, and possibly the input shaft bearing. (Good posts on here about how to do this)
There are quite a few posts on here about seals starting to leak after a clutch change (but people generally only post about problems, so there must be many that never start leaking). At the very least, check its not leaking now, and that there is no side-to-side movement on the input shaft. It's a real pain to have to do it all over again because the clutch plate got contaminated with oil. (Been there, done that).

Thanks for that. I intend to check the input shaft bearing and seal anyway, while everything is easy to access. Valeo look slightly better value compared to LUK, but better still are Ridex (every Ridex part I've bought for this car has been excellent quality). I'll get the bits from Autodoc

 

[koalar]

As per @irc

Heavy likely clutch

Oil in the bell housing (oil seal/s)

any play at all at end of the shaft (bearing)

might as well be adresed at the same time, if needed

What noise?

"curious noise which they assured me was not anything to be alarmed about."

I put the cheapest £40 3 piece kit i could find in about 2 years ago

The original AP is the nicest to drive in my opinion. It probably made just for the manufacture, A replacement AP may not feel the same

Be careful of the diameter, the 69HP 2010 uses a larger diameter. We have seen one 69HP none VVT from 2009 no idea which clutch they used or which model or country it was

 

[Shuggie]

What noise?

"curious noise which they assured me was not anything to be alarmed about."

I put the cheapest £40 3 piece kit i could find in about 2 years ago

The original AP is the nicest to drive in my opinion. It probably made just for the manufacture, A replacement AP may not feel the same

Be careful of the diameter, the 69HP 2010 uses a larger diameter. We have seen one 69HP none VVT from 2009 no idea which clutch they used or which model or country it was

The noise is a sort of hollow, rough, groaning sound that occurs briefly when under load, exclusively between engine revs around 1100-1300rpm, and most noticeable in the lower gears, around town. Above those speeds tyre noise dominates and masks everything else, bar a bit of (perfectly normal) crown wheel whine.

It's not the engine, since that is as sweet as a nut over all revs. Since the noise is linked to engine revs, and not to road speed, and is not the engine, it must be something that rotates at the same speed as the engine, hence why I asked J R Dain Transmission Repairs to advise, in case it might be something like a tired input shaft bearing. Since they have pointed out that the clutch probably needs replacing, and gearbox removal to get access to the clutch also will allow me to look at the input shaft and test it for wiggliness, I'm happy to wait and see what arises.

If the gearbox does need any work, I am lucky to have a specialist like J R Dain more or less on the doorstep, since that sort of work is beyond my skills.

I'd noticed that the correct clutch diameter is 180mm, and that some are 190mm, presumably for that later 69hp version.

 

[dagdromer]

I used several Blueprint clutches. the prices are between ridex and luk. Blueprint is owned by Bilstein and so far I'm very happy with them.

you could try an oil flush first on the gearbox. If you catch the old oil you can see if there are metal shavings inside and go from there. The box holds around 1.7 liter of fluid.

 

[Shuggie]

I used several Blueprint clutches. the prices are between ridex and luk. Blueprint is owned by Bilstein and so far I'm very happy with them.

you could try an oil flush first on the gearbox. If you catch the old oil you can see if there are metal shavings inside and go from there. The box holds around 1.7 liter of fluid.

I did change the gearbox oil a while back and there were no bits of metal in the old oil, which was still nice and clean. Changing the oil made no difference!