Sorry if this isn't the right place for this, but have just read this article - https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/panda/352332/new-2022-fiat-panda-sit-below-500-new-look-line

Having had various 2nd hand 4x4 models the last few years I think now is the time to buy a brand new one - but how long dare I leave it until all of a sudden you can't buy one any more?

I wonder how much notice they will give if the 4x4 model is (presumably correctly, I think the article is probably spot on about this) no more with the totally new version?

I wouldn’t muck about if you want one. The Panda’s way past its sell-by date. For a while earlier this year it looked like production wasn’t coming back after the factory shut down for COVID. And, separately, Fiat have form for just suddenly dropping models in the UK (eg most recently the Tipo saloon). So a variant like the 4x4 with an out-of-favour (and out of production?) engine that sells in vanishingly small numbers must surely be on borrowed time here.

Funny enough... I have just realised I'm entitled to the Affinity scheme being a key worker - the list is quite comprehensive and not just the usual NHS (and even then they say 'sorry if we've left you out, why not give us a try anyway...'

My application was 'accepted' near instantly making me think it was virtually automated (I didn't use a work email).

There is what feels to me a very genuine 23% off list which surely you'd not get quite so much even for cash at a dealer?

The price list expires on the 31st and it seems to me not only will such models be short on the ground perhaps but come January 1st BREXIT will add a speculative 10% to the list price whether it actually costs them that or not.

I'm hoping to get a new one and it has the same 10 year life my current Diesel 2010 Cross 4x4 has had - here's hoping. I'll update you what the dealer says about stock and availability...

Is that right though that the Twin Turbo has effectively come back from the dead *just* for a select few models that used to be diesel?

I suspect it’s remaining stocks only on the Twin Air. Seems Fiat couldn’t justify the complexity/expense of reengineering the fag-end 4x4 to take the new mild hybrid engine. And having driven a 500 with it, we should be grateful for that. It’s absolutely rotten.

I'd be surprised if, having launched the 'facelifted' Panda with a TA 4x4 option, they were to drop it almost immediately. From the AutoExpress article, the new Panda seems to be at quite an early stage in the planning process, so a 2022 launch seems highly ambitious - and in the meantime, the top spec Pandas must surely be more profitable to build? But who knows!

gar074 said:

I'd be surprised if, having launched the 'facelifted' Panda with a TA 4x4 option, they were to drop it almost immediately.

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They’ll have to drop it when they run out of Twin Air engines.

Well I hope there’s no issues with supply as I’ve had a new cross 4x4 on order since October and I’m hoping for delivery in January.

I’d take the auto express article with a big pinch of salt. They have previous for predicting new models that never emerge or do so much later and there’s nothing really very specific in the fiat comments.

I just don’t see that they will drop the panda that quickly after the latest refresh.

Seamaster said:

They’ll have to drop it when they run out of Twin Air engines.

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Yes, but do we know for certain that they've stopped producing them?

Hi All

I did spot on Autotrader a couple of days ago a grey panda 1.0 sport for sale, i think it was registered October but I could be wrong.

Tim

gar074 said:

Yes, but do we know for certain that they've stopped producing them?

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We know it’s an engine that’s been on death row since at least 2017.

I imagine the TwinAir will go soon, but there's nothing to suggest that production has ended already. It's produced in the same factory in Poland that's now making the FireFly engines, so it's unlikely that FCA desperately need to get rid of it to make way for new engines - see article https://www.fcagroup.com/stories/emea/en-us/Pages/firefly_engines.aspx

I imagine so long as they can take the hit on their emissions figures, it'll see out production of the current Panda and then (on account of it already being dropped from all other applications) it'll be retired.

There are already a number of the new City Life and Sport models at dealers on AutoTrader, so i suspect a few Cross and Wild 4x4 models will filter through soon.

I have a have a hunch the 4x4 is being stopped - and the body bits are being used up on 2WD models - all those 2WD Crosses use up the body kit from that, and the new Life models using 4x4 bumpers.... but, it’s been such a success over past 35+ years I’d expect there to be a 4WD version of its successor too.

datadiffusion said:

Funny enough... I have just realised I'm entitled to the Affinity scheme being a key worker - the list is quite comprehensive and not just the usual NHS (and even then they say 'sorry if we've left you out, why not give us a try anyway...'

My application was 'accepted' near instantly making me think it was virtually automated (I didn't use a work email).

There is what feels to me a very genuine 23% off list which surely you'd not get quite so much even for cash at a dealer?

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You don't even have to be a key worker. The Affinity discount is available to members of the Fiat Motor Club. It costs £30 to join. Do the maths.

I got £4550 off a new Cross (27.4%) ordered December 2019 for Mar 2020 (new Reg). The Cross was at a higher discount rate at the time, because there was a £1000 promotion on it anyway. No issues with the dealer, I just produced my membership card.

You get the same % discount on any factory fit options including paint.

I don't think Fiat will discontinue the Panda until they have a replacement ready, which will be 2022.

Thanks for that very interesting, I agree that the Panda will be kept going until the end... I just think that the 4x4 may be quietly dropped early on. I'm also not convinced there will be a new 2022 Panda 4x4 if it's basically a re-skinned Peugeot 109 - I'd assumed they will just point people towards a 500+ 4x4 or equivalent?

Anyway so I did a little bit of reading and the general feeling (or at least the SMMT writing post-24th December) is that EU [and Japanese] sourced cars will only rise 1-2% because of Brexit. As I'm writing this I've just realised the new price list is out, so goto https://www.fiat.co.uk/content/dam/fiat/uk/pricelists/FCA-Fiat-Price-List-January 2020.pdf and head to page 56... and... hold up, is that a price cut for a top of the range Cross 4x4 at £16,775?? Or is the 2019 Affinity price list 'retail' quote at £17,405 inflated to make the 23.5% discount look better?

p.s I did phone the dealer a few days ago who perhaps might have had one too may dreamer or timewaster through the virtual door recently, but generally seemed slightly disinterested I have to say, so decided there and then I would put my purchase off until the Spring, should make it easier to flog my existing Panda 4x4 then too assuming we are more back to Tier 2 than in Tier 5.9. As you can tell my 'key worker' status means I don't believe for a minute this current crisis is going away in a hurry.

A short anecdote to finish, a few years ago you could join the NFU as a 'smallholding' member for about £120 and get a similar 25% discount off a new landie (not RR I think though...?), this was on top of any discount, included pre-reg etc... Suffice to say scrappage scheme on a 10 year old Seat Ibiza + pre-reg + NFU discount saw me walking away with a brand new Defender for about £11k OTR. We didn't have a smallholding (though, we were thinking about buying one to be fair) oddly it turned out a few months later the NFU started vetting all new applicants in person . I narrowly dodged a serious / life changing injury caused by an HGV switching lanes without looking and rolling me over, and fell out of love with newly manufactured 1970s designed vehicles quite quickly, hence Panda all the way since. I'd have to say though the new defender I wouldn't look at even if I'd won the lottery twice over.

I've just had a look and the price list is for January 2020 rather than 2021, so that'll be why the affinity price is now higher I suspect.

If you tried the local dealer to Weston Super Mare then it's not the first time they've been marked down on here - give Vale Motors (Wincanton), Pewsham Garage (Chippenham) or if you don't mind heading a bit further, Vospers (Exeter) a try.

Fiat are pretty laid back over the discount schemes from a customer perspective at least, so you should have little difficulty obtaining the affinity price - I'm a 'key worker' too (front line public service) and sent my request to join Fiat Group's discount scheme and it came through really quickly even though my job role wasn't listed on their page.

I've a feeling the next baby Peugeot (if they make one) is more likely to be based on the new 500 electric and/or upcoming Panda than the other way round, as I don't think it was PSA's intention to replace the 108/C1, though they may have changed their mind following the agreement with FCA and the economies of scale that could bring. Any new slightly larger Fiat's like a new Punto or Tipo would likely be based on PSA underpinnings i imagine though.

JTD_Liam said:

I've a feeling the next baby Peugeot (if they make one) is more likely to be based on the new 500 electric and/or upcoming Panda than the other way round, as I don't think it was PSA's intention to replace the 108/C1, though they may have changed their mind following the agreement with FCA and the economies of scale that could bring. Any new slightly larger Fiat's like a new Punto or Tipo would likely be based on PSA underpinnings i imagine though.

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This makes more sense to me. Fiat is very strong (in Europe) with the A-class city-car sector with both the Panda and 500. Most of the development for the 108 & C1 was done by Toyota anyway. But in the B-Class using PSA based platform would be a a fast way of getting Fiat back into this class.

TinyTurbo said:

This makes more sense to me. Fiat is very strong (in Europe) with the A-class city-car sector with both the Panda and 500. Most of the development for the 108 & C1 was done by Toyota anyway. But in the B-Class using PSA based platform would be a a fast way of getting Fiat back into this class.

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Exactly. PSA have ended their link-up with Toyota now, so have no partner for the City Car model and had no replacement planned, but Fiat already have a brand new electric 500 ready to go on a new platform but also face the challenges of making the sums add-up in this sector, particular for lower priced Combustion Engined models. Makes perfect sense for Fiat to offer their expertise and new 500 underpinnings to PSA if PSA can then offer their competitive 208/Corsa underpinnings to Fiat for a Punto sized model.

JTD_Liam said:

I've just had a look and the price list is for January 2020 rather than 2021

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Feeling only slightly stupid here...

Then again a Motability 1st January 2021 article (which came up in a search for a 2021 price list) are saying there have been 'some 2021 price drops on Panda'.

Just need to have a look at an actual 2021 price list then

Thanks for tip yes never heard great things about that dealer will probably travel.

£17535 is what comes up on the Fiat website now for a Cross 4x4

I bought mine in May 2019. At the time the best quoted prices was 14895 for a standard car. I decided that as the last one had cost just 11000 I would wait.

Low and behold, as the new quarter started Fiat started to produce some offers and I paid £12300 for the Waze model with another £1000 of extras from the non existent price list. I have climate, leather bits, height adjustable drivers seat amongst others

The price from Fiat yo yo's vastly so if you want a car wait and watch. Take your time.

I did see a new one advertised via a What Car enquiry yesterday for 13895 from A Barnsley dealer. It did not specify which model but appeared to be a 2021 spec Panda Wild 4x4