Technical Waste gate problems Turbo TwinAir.

[The Pretender]

Apparently the TwinAir "Turbo" has some "waste gate" issues.
New to me, but not a uncommon problem for the little turbo used on the TwinAir.
In due time the problem will increase.

 

[The Pretender]

I fount this : http://www.saito.it/2781/manutenzio...-waste-gate-motore-fiat-sge-twinair-0-9-litri



But my Italian is not good enough to understand what is be done to solve the problem.
Is it a modification to solve the problem on a existing turbo, or is it a modification made to the turbo to solve the problem and do you need te replace the hole center part of the turbo to get it fixed. ??

 

[chris3234]

Let be fair it's an issue with wastegates on most turbo's to some degree or other often the car then never get driven into the higher rev range at all

 

[The Pretender]

Let be fair it's an issue with wastegates on most turbo's to some degree or other often the car then never get driven into the higher rev range at all

Didn't know that it was so common on turbo's that have a waste gate valve.

 

[chris3234]

Well wouldn't say common
But lot of cars having sticking wastegates
Variable turbo's often have issues with them sticking too

 

[The Pretender]

Well wouldn't say common
But lot of cars having sticking wastegates
Variable turbo's often have issues with them sticking too

In case of the TwinAir it's more a leeway issue of the valve axle.
In case of the Italian video it looks like there is a modification for it.

 

[The Pretender]

 

[fiat500kent]

Our fiat 500 (0.9 TA '12 100k miles) has been given me some headache over the last months. The engine would cut out and goes into limp mode. restart engine(whilst driving sometimes) and engine worked again. (engine light on)

It slowly got worse and worse over the last months. According to an Italian forum on Mitos with the same issue, it was thought it could be related to the throttle body and so I cleaned it as there was quite a bit of oil residue in there. The car worked perfectly for 1,5 weeks without fail or engine lights.

Today whilst driving on the motorway the engine cut out and restarting didn't help and the car stayed in limp mode.

I serviced the car over the weekend and noticed the wastegate actuator had quite a bit of leeway as in the above videos.

Has anyone here replaced their turbos after similar events?

Many thanks
Willem

 

[205dan]

Hi Willem,

Have you got any further with this? Our Fiat Panda 2012 TA 76K miles has similar symptoms.

Cheers

Dan

 

[The Pretender]

Replacing the Turbo will be very expensive.

 

[205dan]

So as the problem has been persisting I have taken off the airbox and heatsheild to take a look. And here is what I found.

[ame]https://youtu.be/wWOmT3Dr0DU[/ame]

I've emailed Stefano at Saito and they think that it is the same problem as stated earlier in this thread, valve axle failure, So today I'm ordering a new intergrated exhaust manifold from them. I will keep you posted as to how this goes.

 

[The Pretender]

I’m interested to see Where this is going.

 

[Liteboy]

Our sons TA 500 had the same issue, it was a 2011 model and had done 85k we bought it from our local franchise and it came with 12months dealer warranty. The issue came to light when his exhaust rusted through and we took the car to a specialist exhaust maker in Lincolnshire. They made a fab stainless exhaust to the same pattern as standard but when we collected the car the guys said did I know the turbo was badly worn at the wastegate pivot. He showed me the play which was a good 3 to 4 mm. We took the car back to the dealer and they replaced it with a new unit under warranty, it was lucky the exhaust guys knew their stuff.
The dealer wouldn't comment on the fault but I guess high mileage cars are a worry.
The symptoms were a metallic chatter and hesitation coming on to boost. This was fixed with the new turbo unit.

 

[Project 192]

I'll keep a look out for that on my Panda TA, it's not done as much mileage but it's 4 years old, I still have some warranty on it. What revs should the turbo start to come in? Is there any reason why the waste gate ends up like this?
Cheers.

 

[205dan]

Update.

The order from SAITO came to £336 for the integrated exhaust manifold, new gasket, and a new rod-end. This included next day delivery from Italy and all Taxes.

I had my local garage fit everything which came to £160 labour, a pretty good rate I think.

So the result, so far so good, I've been driving about for 5 days now, 20 - 30 mile trips here and there no problem, no sticky waste-gate! no limp mode! slightly stronger pull from the engine overall. I have to do a long motorway journey yet, but all signs are that it is fixed.

I have seen the old parts and there is significant wobble in the axle that passes through the turbo exhaust manifold, more pronounced now it is removed. and the rod end connector.. well what was round had become very much oval. In all I'd say this added up to more that 8mm play in what should have been a tight fit. No wonder it was misbehaving.

 

[Useful]

Interesting. Mine seems to go into what feels like Eco mode when the engine works a little too hard. I get the start/stop warning and the engine light comes on. Eventually it sorts itself and the lights go out, so I've lived with it for a while (including a change of plugs).


Just felt the actuator arm and there's play in it, so I've probably got this turbo illness. Can't be bothered to take the top off to have a closer look today as it's raining - and I did the oil and filters yesterday so I've had enough Panda guts for this weekend (wish I'd read this thread earlier). I'll get in there later in the week and have a closer look. Be nice if the play is only from the end of the arm making itself a bigger hole, but I'm having one of those weeks, so probably not.

Thanks for the info.

 

[The Pretender]

I would like to have seen a picture of the single manifold you got ordered, before install.

I have a new appointment with SAVALI voor a software read while driving around to see whats going on, and maybe a remap if there are no strange things going on.

 

[205dan]

Useful we've put 78,000 miles on our 2012 TA 4x4 which I'm guessing is a high average for this type of car, so hopefully your a bit behind the curve on this. With the benefit of hindsight I would change the rod end earlier as it may put less pressure/reduce wear on the axle bearing if it is a snug fit.

Pretender, sorry I never even opened the box, just handed it over to my local garage. I have the old one if that helps? You might also be interested in this video for how it splits.

 

[Useful]

Thanks. That's very useful. I'm getting up there in mileage (about 65K). I'll take a look at it tomorrow. Hopefully there is only play in the rod end, but we'll see. Whatever's loose I'll order the appropriate parts, put my best white Italian shirt on and get to work.

Thanks again for the info.

 

[The Pretender]

These 3 parts you need from Saito.it to solve the waste-gate problem.