Have just purchased (1 month ago) my first Fiat and first Panda (2015 Easy 1.2 model 319). Have been absolutely loving my Panda but my confidence has been dented somewhat by warning lights going off already ('hill holder unavailable, ESC light and then the engine lights. I let the car idle and after 30 mins or so they switched off). In case it helps anyone with similar fault, the dealer confirmed and replaced a faulty sensor (vmac/Mav?) and the car is running better now. I wondered if anyone has experienced similar or regular faults with Pandas. My Panda is only 2 years old (5000 miles) and am now worried about Panda reliability in general or if sensor failures are relatively common even at such low mileage. Many thanks for any advice and/or reassurance!

Could it be the MAP sensor you are referring to? These can get condensation build up and can fail, to be fair your car is low mileage and this could be the reason. So the question is.... Has the car been serviced at least two times? Also as its just done 5000 miles, are they just short runs? The new sensor and a few long and fast runs should sort it out. Just make sure it had a full service when purchased. If it was mine I'd be changing the oil and filter after the next decent run.

murphyv310 said:

Could it be the MAP sensor you are referring to? These can get condensation build up and can fail, to be fair your car is low mileage and this could be the reason. So the question is.... Has the car been serviced at least two times? Also as its just done 5000 miles, are they just short runs? The new sensor and a few long and fast runs should sort it out. Just make sure it had a full service when purchased. If it was mine I'd be changing the oil and filter after the next decent run.

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Hi
Thanks so much for response. It has only had one full service so far with next service due at 18000 miles. It has done both long and short runs but agreed - mainly short (2-3 miles every other day).

Mine is throwing similar warnings at me occasionally. Troubleshooting narrowed it down to a battery on the way out (low battery voltage combined with winter conditions and stop/start). For the time being, I've resorted to disabling stop/start and taking the scenic route to work, adding a few minutes to my commute but probably better for the batter (and engine, the little diesel simply refuses to warm up that quickly).

I too was going to say battery voltage low. Although 'the computer will say sensors X and Y', these sorts of odd behaviours are often due a voltage drop giving 'false' readings. Give the overall low mileage, and tendency for short runs, may well be that the battery charge has dropped in the cold. A longish run (only needs 20 miles or so now and again) will get that sorted.

'Full service' is a misleading term from Fiat. The car should be 'inspected' every 9000 miles or once a year, but nothing actually gets changed or adjusted -- it is just a 'good hard look' (check the list of 'actions' in the service book: lots of mentions of 'check' and 'inspect' but none of 'replace'). That comes (as you say) at 18000 miles (or after another 12 months)

oyumurtaci said:

...Troubleshooting narrowed it down to a battery on the way out (low battery voltage combined with winter conditions and stop/start). For the time being, I've resorted to disabling stop/start ...

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Theoretically, Stop/start disables itself if the battery voltage is too low. You get no 'indication' of this - it just sometimes chooses to leave the engine running.

Herts Hillhopper said:

Theoretically, Stop/start disables itself if the battery voltage is too low. You get no 'indication' of this - it just sometimes chooses to leave the engine running.

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Yes, it does tend to disable itself, but I'm probably pushing the battery (and my luck) a bit hard with the amp and subwoofer in the back, drawing more power (at stop lights, in the garage, while filling up etc.). Considering I spend about 20 minutes every day with the engine off but music on, I'm surprised the battery hasn't given up yet.

Many Thanks for all views and suggestions. Having driven my Panda since sensor replaced, I feel that it's still not running properly . There's a definite jarring / jolting when even slightly lifting foot off throttle. Back to dealer - very worried I've bought a dud car. Such a shame as it was initially a great little car to drive.

Hi.
Make sure any software updates have been done. May be a good idea to get a new set of plugs, I use Denso Iridium and these will do 60, 000 miles unlike the standard NGK ones that don't last the pace. They can feel a bit jerky on lifting off but I find its damp days that's worse

My 2015 Panda 1.2 petrol has just started to do the same. If you start it and let it sit at idle after a short time it faults out with hill holder and the other related issues you have mentioned. Had a good look round for obvious abs sensor damage to cables ect but none found . Here is the strange thing if you turn on the headlights it does not do it nor does I do it if you sit just above idle . So Im sure it voltage related Battery / Alternator possibly . going to pop it to local electrical specialist to see what they can find . will update if I find out anything .

The standard battery can fail in an instant. My previous 1.2 battery went totally dead on the day I went for a test drive in the city cross for no apparent reason. I switch off start stop in the winter due to some short runs, HRW on and lights. Only had one instant of warning lights two weeks ago (Yellow triangle saying DRL fault and TPMS on) these were on the same day at different times. It had been very wet and with dreadful visibility, every thing was on and the days before I'd hardly used the car and then very short runs. A run to Edinburgh and back and a lot of running since all has been well.

murphyv310 said:

The standard battery can fail in an instant. My previous 1.2 battery went totally dead on the day I went for a test drive in the city cross for no apparent reason. I switch off start stop in the winter due to some short runs, HRW on and lights. Only had one instant of warning lights two weeks ago (Yellow triangle saying DRL fault and TPMS on) these were on the same day at different times. It had been very wet and with dreadful visibility, every thing was on and the days before I'd hardly used the car and then very short runs. A run to Edinburgh and back and a lot of running since all has been well.

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Can relate my own experiences but would concur that many problems are as a result of the car detecting a low voltage.

On a 63 plate TA the original factory fitted battery was swapped maybe a year ago. The battery hadn't expired but stop start had long since been disabled by the "system". Then, with increasing regularity the hill-hold, and other brake/abs related functions seemed to be randomly withdrawn.

The battery replacement reinstated stop start, albeit briefly, and fixed the other problems. The car typically only does short runs so battery gets caned in winter. Interestingly I get similar warnings in extreme summer conditions (high ambient temperatures) which again I think are temperature related voltage issues.

I've owned many and various Fiats, Alfas and, back in the day Lancias, none have been without their own little electrical idiosyncrasies; it comes with territory

Stop and .. err.. Start

Were options back in the 80's..

But at the discretion of lady luck..rather than an on.board computer

If only done 5000 miles in two years, then would remove the battery and put on a deep cycle charge/discharge and if you have access to a desulphator use that also or a charger with that incorporated. If it has stood for a long period also worth checking the belt has not taken a set. If the vehicle dry and battery good, most issues on ultra low mileage vehicles go. #askmehowiknow .

Hi ours does just the same thing But only just after it has been serviced then its does not happen until the next service . Took car to local electrical garage but could find no faults in the system. Had new disks and pads fitted last week and again it happened . all systems working ok Im sure its a fault fiat have in the software but cant be bothered to fix as it makes them easy money as so many people have this issue and end up having new battery new sensors ect . As you say leave head lights on all of the time and it does not come on .

Terry Fisher said:

Hi ours does just the same thing But only just after it has been serviced then its does not happen until the next service . Took car to local electrical garage but could find no faults in the system. Had new disks and pads fitted last week and again it happened . all systems working ok Im sure its a fault fiat have in the software but cant be bothered to fix as it makes them easy money as so many people have this issue and end up having new battery new sensors ect . As you say leave head lights on all of the time and it does not come on .

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Hi

Thanks for that

Almost sounds like having the battery disconnected at service interferes with the sensors reading from the battery clamp

I know they are supposed to 'learn' -adapt with use

Leaving the load of the headlights on certainly 'tells a tale'
Charlie

Hi my fiat panda started saying hill hold unavailable and peeping at me. She seems to really not like it when I brake, if I don't touch the brakes she's perfectly happy but as soon as I touch the brakes, she comes up with the ESC warning, peeps at me and says hill hold unavailable see handbook.

forgot to say she's 2017 registration number plate


Is she safe to drive? I have to drive to and from work tomorrow, Monday and Tuesday.

tiggerwillow said:

Hi my fiat panda started saying hill hold unavailable and peeping at me. She seems to really not like it when I brake, if I don't touch the brakes she's perfectly happy but as soon as I touch the brakes, she comes up with the ESC warning, peeps at me and says hill hold unavailable see handbook.

forgot to say she's 2017 registration number plate


Is she safe to drive? I have to drive to and from work tomorrow, Monday and Tuesday.

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Hi

Probably the electrical plunger switch on the brake pedal.. the signal from it is used to control other functions

SEARCH on here should find info on checking : changing the switch

Here you go:

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/480478-brake-light-switch-replacement.html?480478=#post4533816

varesecrazy said:

Hi

Probably the electrical plunger switch on the brake pedal.. the signal from it is used to control other functions

SEARCH on here should find info on checking : changing the switch

Here you go:

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/480478-brake-light-switch-replacement.html?480478=#post4533816

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I have read many different threads on here relating to these type of error warnings, I am not going to speculate about the reasons but will share my experiences with my Panda and a line of Italian cars (all of which seem to have had their own electrical/electronic quirks).

Yep; '63 plate TA 74k miles all the original poster's symptoms hill holder etc and (crucially) all those warnings triggered by using brake pedal. This caused me much head scratching and I went down the route of changing the battery, however... A really good independent Alfa technician that I have known and used over many years replaced the brake light switch (passenger side under dashboard on RHD cars). This fixed all those nonsense warnings, I don't know or understand fully why but it seems maybe there was some sort of volts leakage that was distressing the CanBus system.

Also, as previously mentioned by others the stop start performance is influenced by the battery voltage I went down the road of changing the battery but again the Alfa guy suggested looking at the Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS...) which is the voltage regulator on the negative battery pole. He didn't have a new one but swapped it for a S/H one off a MiTo, hey presto all is well...

So, my experience was a faulty mechanical/electrical switch which in my opinion did not affect the actual performance of the brakes but may have limited some of its features that you would not notice or use in day to day driving.

varesecrazy said:

Hi

Probably the electrical plunger switch on the brake pedal.. the signal from it is used to control other functions

SEARCH on here should find info on checking : changing the switch

Here you go:

Click to expand...

thanks

she needs more petrol tomorrow, considering the warning this is it safe to fill her tank up so its full or will this cause her to get upset further?

she's going into the garage on thursday