Hi, mine is a 899cc 1997 panda.
A year ago (18000 km ago) the head gasket was blown.
Now 2 days ago the panda had a bad idle. I've checked the levels (oil and coolant) and they was OK. Yesterday it was running fine, except of a smell of coolant burned from exhaust and sometimes bad idle. I put it in my box, and now I've checked the levels and there was no coolant! Oil level is good. I've filled the coolant and tried to start the car. It run with a bad idle and after 20 seconds it shut off. I haven't try to start it after, but I've rechecked the coolant and there wasn't.:bang: I've lifted the car and here is what I've seen:



Help. What'up now? :bang:
sorry for my bad English...

I don't know where your coolant is going but that looks like oil coming from the crankshaft oil seal. Can you check to see if it is oil or water? If it is water then your water pump is probably leaking. I think it's located at that end of the block above the crank pulley. No doubt a proper Panda expert will know for sure.

Looks like the waterpump and or gasket has blown.

As per Ricks post the oils seal looks like it's gone as well as there is def a good bit of oil leaking.

Need to check the oil breather system as the seals normally go due to pressure build up

The leak in that pics is coming from upper the main pulley. I'm going to check, but it to me seems coolant, not oil....
but where is going my coolant?

What can I do for help you to diagnose this?
It's good to not fire it?
thank you

Can you post more pictures? A couple of close ups from under the bonnet of that side of the engine might help. Check where the head meets the block to see if there is any leakage.

Take out the spark plug at that end of the block too and use something absorbent to dip the cylinder. This will help decide if the head gasket is gone or not. If it has gone between the water jacket and cylinder you will get water in the cylinder.

Usually though when this happens your coolant system overpressurises. This may have happened and then forced it's way out through a weak point in the system such as a hose joint or gasket.

Have you tried filling the system and just looking under the car to see if it's coming straight out again?

The liquid coming out from under the car in last pictures that I've post is oil. I don't know if it's pure oil or oil+coolant... It' coming out from "oil sump" (I think it's this the English name...). Here a pic:

default_user said:

Check where the head meets the block to see if there is any leakage.

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No leaks between head and block from outside view.

default_user said:

Take out the spark plug at that end of the block too and use something absorbent to dip the cylinder. This will help decide if the head gasket is gone or not. If it has gone between the water jacket and cylinder you will get water in the cylinder.

Click to expand...

I'll try this.

default_user said:

Have you tried filling the system and just looking under the car to see if it's coming straight out again?

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As I saw the car is leaking oil from oil sump but I don't think that is only this the problem

Here is the oil filler cap (in pic seems to be more mayonnaise that it's in reality:




This is the injector with cover removed. It's normal all that sh*t? It's like that it isn't only fuel...


Now I'll try to see if there is water in cylinder from spark-plug's hole.

Oil cap could just be condensation if you don't run the car much ?

The pic of the sump is Def oil & water as you can see damp marks at the edge of where the oil has been leeking.

But as said if that much water is disapearing and you can't see where it's comming out there is a chance the head gasket is gone. CHECK the oil level and see what the dipstick is showing.

Alan.D said:

But as said if that much water is disapearing and you can't see where it's comming out there is a chance the head gasket is gone. CHECK the oil level and see what the dipstick is showing.

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I've checked 6 hours ago when car not started and is between half and max as days ago when it was running fine.
Now I'll try to refill the coolant and start the car.
I've tried to check if there was water in cylinders, but no luck... It seems that isn't but I'm not sure. Tomorrow I'll try to change spark plugs...

bye

I'll throw in my two pence Re check dip stick ie oil is at correct level keep note of its possition! Fill car up with water, start car if you can? run it and keep checking temp. gauge so you don't run engine into red. gep an eye out for any dripping or wet patches under car. check rear end of car rear exaust box should be clear of any steam once engine has reached correct running temp. Let car cool down if no direct evidence of leaking water re check dip stick have you mor oil than when you started if you have head gasket blown. check for water on dip stick another indication water mixing with engine oil.

Alan.D said:

Oil cap could just be condensation if you don't run the car much ?

The pic of the sump is Def oil & water as you can see damp marks at the edge of where the oil has been leeking.

But as said if that much water is disapearing and you can't see where it's comming out there is a chance the head gasket is gone. CHECK the oil level and see what the dipstick is showing.

Click to expand...

nuvolarossa said:

I've checked 6 hours ago when car not started and is between half and max as days ago when it was running fine.
Now I'll try to refill the coolant and start the car.
I've tried to check if there was water in cylinders, but no luck... It seems that isn't but I'm not sure. Tomorrow I'll try to change spark plugs...

bye

Click to expand...

Spark plugs will not make any difference to a water leak so don't bother going to expense till this is resolved.

Hmmm, all the evidence is pointing to the head gasket. After you fill the coolant system with water leave the expansion tank cap off. Start the engine and watch the water in the expansion tank. If it's constantly bubbling then the head gasket is gone. The leaking crank seal may be a side effect of the failed gasket. If a cylinder is blowing into the water jacket and an oil way you'll get overpressurisation of the coolant system and the crank case. The oily stuff in your SPI unit may well be a mixture of water vapor and oil as the crank case breather blows back into the air filter housing.

Edit.
Just thought. You mention that it had the head gasket done about a year ago. Was the head skimmed at the same time? Alloy heads are prone to distorting if overheated (I'm presuming this is an alloy head). If the head is distorted this may be why the gasket has failed this time.

default_user said:

Edit.
Just thought. You mention that it had the head gasket done about a year ago. Was the head skimmed at the same time? Alloy heads are prone to distorting if overheated (I'm presuming this is an alloy head). If the head is distorted this may be why the gasket has failed this time.

Click to expand...

Yesterday night I started the car after filled the coolant. Was like going on 1 or 2 cylinder. I have move it for 10 meters with partial throttle and then after leave the throttle pedal the car shut off. I haven't checked the levels because was night.
A year ago the head was a little distorted and for this it was skimmed.
I don't know why every 899cc engine, even on cinquecento and seicento, has this problem. I don't want to change the head gasket next year too, I'm bored

I've a doubt: It's many time that I haven't heard the engine fan noise... maybe it isn't working? How to check?


Who has haynes or porter manual can send me the pages when it describes how to remove the head gasket from my 899cc engine? Thank you

End of DIY story:

yesterday my mechanic checked it, it taken apart the head and the head gasket was burnt. Two cylinders were not firing and they look brand new, without residual oxide. But he doesn't know why after only 18000km this has happened. Then it checked the "termostato"(don't know how is in English) and it was bad. So he send the head to do some compression/leaking tests for see if it's cracked, fitted a new termostato, reskimming and maybe this evening the panda will revive...
Wondering about the price of these operations?

it may well be cheaper to get a new engine for about £50 and put that in. if you find a good one your problems will be solved.
i've even seen one go for free to a good home on one classified site, think it was friday ad.

:yeahthat: