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Panda Psychopanda - qu'est-ce que c'est?

Introduction

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This is our 2004 1.2 Dynamic ('Psychopanda' after her number plate, not the way she's driven!), soon after we bought her in October 2018 at 92k miles, on the way back from Belgium with my girlfriend's otherworldly possessions (plus a bottle or twelve of the local tipple). Getting that lowrider style I've always wanted:)

It's such a fun and capable little car, I've quickly developed a real soft spot for it as it bounces and leans around the countryside! We got it for my girlfriend to learn to drive and took my Mk1 MX5 off the road. I guess I'm a small car person then:)

Most of my driving is on country lanes, and it's a hilarious thing to chuck about. I'd read they handled pretty well, but I didn't expect to be grinning quite so much when driving it! Being narrow helps on the lanes, yet I was surprised that it feels light and spacious inside, from the front seats anyway. Also surprised to learn that at 850kg it weighs less than my MX5.

It's taken me a little while to get it how I want it.

First was a new timing belt as, despite FSH, there was no record of it having been done, and I used this to drive the asking price down a bit.

I prefer to do my own servicing and, again despite FSH, the plugs, coolant and transmission fluid looked ancient. The car felt much better after the service, especially the gearchange. I suspect the transmission fluid had been a little low, too. It used to crunch a little changing down to 3rd, but that's gone now.

I found the Panda easy to service with good access, and didn't even need to jack the car up. Only the plugs are a bit fiddly, tucked away deep down at the back of the engine. Taking the throttle body off for cleaning improved access. Oh, and FIAT's coolant hose clips are just mean. My engine oil filter and sump plug were stupidly tight, also the sump was quite rusty, so I smeared the used engine oil over it. It seems I'm not the only one to do this...

I initially thought the door mirrors were hopeless, as I could adjust them to see either half my own car, or all my own car, and trying to move the housing was just flexing the mounting and I was worried about breaking it. But it turns out they had just seized in place, and penetrating fluid and spray grease soon got them free. I have to push mine slightly outwards of their normal position, and I'm not a big bloke.

Then I started finding all sorts of help on this forum! I had the dreaded power steering failure once, when manoeuvring out of a car park, and found the answer to my problems on here. I've cleaned the battery earth connections, and make sure I always let the battery recover from the shock of starting the car before setting off.

I also found out about the common rust spots of coolant return pipe and rear axle, and the mud trap behind the front springs (Thank you Dave McT!).

Whilst I had the car up in the air, clearing out the wheelarches, treating springs, shocks and rear axle for rust, I decided to paint my wheels white.
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I just have an aversion to plastic wheel trims. The Panda's aren't too bad (at least they're not trying hard to look like alloys), but I've always had a soft spot for a painted steel wheel. I think they can look great on the right car, and I just prefer them to alloys on small cheap cars.

I thought the off-white would go well with my shade of blue and would give a subtle 'classic Panda' inspired style. Mine even has a tape deck! How's that for retro credentials? Once I'd done it, though, I couldn't help thinking about a junior rally car look. I'm not into modifying my cars, but I'm not against a bit of subtle personalisation and wanted to make sure my Panda wouldn't be mistaken for granny's shopping trolley. I also really wanted a rear spoiler. The 100HP looks so much better for it. Whilst I like the design of the basic Panda inside and out, the rear styling just seems a little abrupt to me, like it got embarrassed and left the room mid-sentence. So I ordered one direct from Team HEKO. Arrived quickly, easy to fix, I'm very happy with it.
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Whilst treating the rear axle, I noticed the outer skin of the exhaust back box had rusted away, so wire-brushed and painted it black, and thought it looked a bit odd so added a chrome tail pipe tip. I never thought would ever do such a thing, but so many cars have them now that I don't think it looks so daft as I would have thought 10 years or so ago. Finally, I couldn't resist the urge to try the junior rally look with some decals. This is my first Italian car, and I've long wanted an excuse for a Magneti Marelli sticker! I wonder if their ignition will be more reliable than the Lucas & SEV Marchal I grew up with?;)
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My remote key fob rubbers were in a sorry state, so I replaced the buttons, which had a happy side-effect of curing the boot lid of randomly opening itself! I've no idea why it should, maybe the collapsed boot lid button was interfering with the switch? After this, removing the boot handle and cleaning the switch has improved it massively, and now the boot lid opens almost every time!;)
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We've used our Panda to go camping by removing the rear seats completely, folding the front seats flat and plonking an air-mattress on top. It was, er, cosy! I did sound the horn with my foot in the middle of night once or twice. But it was comfortable.
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The only other conversion for camping was adding interior lights to the rear, which I did by connecting a dual USB socket to the boot light wires. Of course this only gets power when the boot is open, and even then switches off after a few minutes, so it's not much use for devices, but it does give options for USB lights to be connected to illuminate the boot.
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Coming up to my first year of ownership, there are so many things I like about the car, and only a couple of things I don't: the rear axle seems like it could have been better designed (and built), and the incessantly self-cancelling indicators are daft (and unnecessarily tricky for learner drivers). Minor gripes for such a cheap car to buy and run, though. I find the follow-me-home lights useful, and I like the way the lights turns themselves off when you kill the ignition (instead of staying on and draining the battery or, even worse, beeping at me:p).

Definitely bigger on the inside than the outside. It's amazing how much you can get in them, and I regularly chuck my bike in the back. We only intended to keep it for a couple of years, but now I'm not so sure!
Is 2012+ Panda axle also the same as the 500/Ford Ka?

I cannot say for certain but they are sold as interchangeable. Also that model Ka was made in the same factory as the 500. It is basically a 500 with different body panels. Even the gear shift is the same.

This https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fits-Fia...542678?hash=item2162904496:g:r38AAOSwRsddSyPi is the 500/Ka axle. Picture 4 shows the ARB mount and the flared stub axle mounts.

This is the Panda axle https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-Ne...986296?hash=item4682039fb8:g:WaoAAOSw65Jc6AP7 Pictures don't have the same angles but you can see there are no ARB lugs and the stub axle mounts are flush with the swing arm tube. How about welding ARB lugs to the Panda axle and push a tube through? I'll measure the ARB on Mrs Dave's car.
 
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Bicycle in a Panda I know, I know, it's mysterious
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I appreciate this is of 0 interest to 95% of people, but...

Whenever I choose a new car I always want to know first what it's like getting a bicycle inside it.

I have a couple of bike racks for those occasions when I have several bikes/people to consider.

When it's just me, my car and my bike, I prefer to keep the machine safely tucked up inside.

I believe it is possible to get a bicycle in any car, it just depends how much of a faff it is, how much has to come off the bike.

I've had my bike in a 2CV, front wheel hooked over the top of the open roof (yes all right I'm sure there's a better way but I had limited time and intelligence and a growing audience). I've also had my bike in an MX5 but I wouldn't recommend it. The MX5 boot isn't even big enough for one wheel by itself. I think bike, car and self carry the scars to this day.

I was amazed to find I can get my bicycle in my Panda without removing wheels or dropping the saddle:)

It's not even too much of a faff (I think. Although it depends how heavy your bike is).

For reference, I'm average build (5'10"/179cm-ish), my bicycle here is a 23.5"/60cm road bike with 700C wheels (It's an old steel frame, modern bikes have different geometry & measurements of course...).

I've just removed my mudguards for the summer months (ever the optimist...), I've had both road and mountain bikes in with mudguards fitted.
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  • Slide front seats fully forward
  • Open left rear door and boot
  • Remove parcel shelf and drop rear seat back. Cover with old duvet/heavy sheet to protect car and bike (the chainring rests on the rear seatback)
  • Lift bicycle in at an angle, chain side up of course
On a bike with drop handlebars, I found the front wheel needs to be swung upwards to the right side of the bike.
On my mountain bike with straight bars, I found the wheel needs to go the other way, downwards to the left side of the bike. This enables the straight bars to run across the left rear door, and between the front seat and b-pillar.
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  • Drop front wheel behind left front seat
  • Place rear wheel in right corner of boot opening
  • Carefully close boot lid (you may need to lift the rear wheel slightly from inside the car to make sure it doesn't get trapped)
  • Position stem/handlebars so that they don't get trapped and close the left rear door
  • Slide front seats back
The left front seat can not slide all the way back with my road bike in, so the driving position might not be ideal for larger drivers in left hand drive cars. Legroom is OK for passengers though. The seat can slide fully back with my bike with straight bars as the front wheel turned the other way sits parallel to the seat back. The smaller 26" wheels also enable the bicycle to sit slightly further back.
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It sits securely this way, the front forks and wheel pinned between the front and rear seats (you might not be too happy about this if you have fancy carbon forks/wheels), rear tyre is up against the boot lid and saddle is just clear of the headlining.

My old man is considering a van-type thing so he can wheel his electric bicycle in upright. Obviously the Panda would be no good for him, but until I need to go electric, I'm delighted with the versatility of my little 169 Panda:)

And when I do go electric, I'll probably go for one of the front hub motor arrangements like this, and I'm sure it'll still go in a Panda.
 
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I have a Cannondale Jekyll 1000 mountain bike compete with Lefty fork. It will go inside the car but its a heck of a faff and has to b laid on dust sheets to protect the car interior. It's just easier to strap the bike carrier to the back door and bungee the bike on there.

A tow bar carrier would be even better and not silly money
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fixed-towbar-hook-swan-neck-Fiat-Panda-2003-2012/173753400248?hash=item2874827bb8:g:vD8AAOSwo4pYfgIX

Thule bike carrier
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/thule-970-...MI6afuvZLX6AIVzbTtCh03cQ0AEAQYAyABEgJhE_D_BwE
 
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Thanks for that link, Dave, that looks like a great towbar kit.

I'd been wondering about fitting one, but don't really want to cut the bumper or have a permanent tow ball for the few times I'd use it.

That one looks ideal, and no cutting needed.

I also like the look of @A3jeroen's Westfalia detachable towbar here. Quite a bit more pricey, mind...

I have a Cannondale Jekyll 1000 mountain bike
That's a fine machine:) Aye, I guess with a tall front fork/high headset set-up, it could be a tricky fit in a Panda.

My Trek with front suspension was half-inched in that London place they have. I know, I should never have taken it in, I did once only because my daily boneshaker was out of action:( So now I'm back to the rigid setup.

I have a bike rack just like that Thule one, that clips on to a tow ball. It's my preferred type of rack, so quick and easy to fit. I just don't have a car with a towbar at the moment... yet...:)
 
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The ones I suggested look to have the U-shape tow ball fixing. There is a QD option for double the money or take the one held by two bolts. It will be off with a couple of spanners and 5 minutes.

I fitted a cheap tow bar to the Renault. It worked fine with a heavy trailer but did need some holes filing out to get the bolts through. That also had the U-shape under the bumper.
 
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Hey :)

Should you ever need hubcaps for you wheels, these are the ones I use, and they almost fit out of the box. https://www.outmotoring.com/winter-tire-hub-cap.html
I got mine used ofcourse. They are stainless, but often look rusty, because rusty bolts "contaminate them".

Rear tracking sounds interesting! Looking forward to that!

Thanks for the ebay link. I gow the exact ones, and had to hack the trunk key up as well. I think I will take my chances on a komplete fob next time, and see how that goes.

And thanks a lot for a clear guide to insert pictures in the best way (to my eyes). That should come in handy.

Have a nice sunday.
What is "rear trackin"?
I can't seem to get a danish translation that help explain it to me.
 
Hi Muddur, 'rear tracking' or 'rear alignment' refers to this:
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Obviously all red boxes are supposed to be green, ideally +1.5mm of toe-in on each rear wheel and zero thrust angle.

It seems a few Pandas don't, due to 'relaxed' tolerances in manufacture and installation of the rear axle.

There is no provision for adjusting the rear toe or camber.

So if you take your car for four-wheel alignment, they'll be able to tell you how wrong it is, but won't be able to correct it for you.

I ended up adding shims to both rear hubs to stop my left rear tyre wearing out due to excessive toe-in.
 
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So "Alignment" = Toe in/Toe Out and camber?

(I know what Toe In/Toe out and scrub radius does (more or less ;))), I just never came across the term "rear allignment" in that context.

Thanks!(y)
 
My wife's 1.2 Dynamic has always tracked straight, both with the original rear axle and with the 500 rear axle.


My 100HP has always pulled left. New bottom arms, track rods (inner and outer), tyres replaced, different wheels (steels) - no change. The tracking was checked professionally before and after the replacement parts and both times show the rear is correct. I have not followed Jock's method for home checking so cannot argue, but it still pulls left.

I might get around to shimming the rear stub axles to see what difference it makes.
 
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Looming in the scuttle...

I was a bit unhappy about the state of the wiring loom in the scuttle area on my car. The original loom tape appears to be made out of rice paper. Whilst it was dry I thought I'd do something about it. Before and after pic:
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Removing the wipers and trim at the base of the windscreen gives good access. I found two of the plastic clips missing (circled in red). I moved one of the middle clips to the outside:
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Exposed loom, disintegrating tape and filthy duck bills. I'd already put some pipe insulation (circled in red) under the loom to stop it chafing where it had been resting unprotected on the metal bracket:
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Cleaned, taped up and ready for reassembly:
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Not impressed:
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Yuk! But can't beat some self amalgamating tape. (y)


I had better get a closer look at mine as it can't be any better after 13 years. :eek:
 
Well done, it looks really neat. I have been thinking about doing that on both the Panda I've had, but haven't any of them :p
I'm mostly worried about my injection loom though, as the vires are so thin, and nothing is there to protect them anymore, as the plastic pipe surround has just crumbled to dust. Have you looked at yours yet?
Btw, can't really blame the cat for choosing a lovely place to be ;)
 
Last time I cleaned out under the scuttle panel I tidied the loom up a bit, where it comes into the scuttle area from the fuse box was particularly bad so rather than just tape up that wiring I got some 32mm split trunking to cover it so that any water that runs off the scuttle doesn't land on the newly taped loom.
 
Well done, it looks really neat. I have been thinking about doing that on both the Panda I've had, but haven't any of them :p
I'm mostly worried about my injection loom though, as the vires are so thin, and nothing is there to protect them anymore, as the plastic pipe surround has just crumbled to dust. Have you looked at yours yet?
Hi! And thanks! Errr, hadn't really noticed the injection loom, where should I be looking?

Btw, can't really blame the cat for choosing a lovely place to be ;)
But I can get to blame her for the appalling condition of the driver's seat:) Poor cat seems to get the blame for a lot of things around here now. Which is why it's useful to have a cat around the place:)

It does seem to be her favourite spot, she gets in there whenever she can. Sadly I think it's because it's a good hiding place to catch the swallows that are nesting in our garage. Even more sadly she did catch one the other week. Such a beautiful bird. I tried explaining the swallow had flown 3,000miles to get here just to get eaten, but I don't think she was listening. She never never does. Which is how you can tell she's a girl cat.
 
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My BMW motorbike had a plastic trough alongside the frame to carry the wiring around the battery box. All very nice, until I read reports of the wires getting chafed. A careful opening of said trough found a number of wire worn flat against the trunking. One had gone though to the copper. I opened up the whole bundle and treated the lot to a good taping up. Thankfully there were others heading the same way.
My point is the best design ideas don't always work so if your wiring loom looks rough it probably does need some TLC.
 
Hi! And thanks! Errr, hadn't really noticed the injection loom, where should I be looking?

Oh, it's on my 100HP. Can't remember any problem on the 1200, so not to worry. And Hi to you too :)

But I can get to blame her for the appalling condition of the driver's seat Poor cat seems to get the blame for a lot of things around here now. Which is why it's useful to have a cat around the place

It does seem to be her favourite spot, she gets in there whenever she can. Sadly I think it's because it's a good hiding place to catch the swallows that are nesting in our garage. Even more sadly she did catch one the other week. Such a beautiful bird. I tried explaining the swallow had flown 3,000miles to get here just to get eaten, but I don't think she was listening. She never never does. Which is how you can tell she's a girl cat.

Haha, yeah sometimes you do have to to put up with a lot to keep a cat around, but as you know it has its benefits at the same time as well. Guess you could say the same for girls.
And a cat behaving like a cat, that's just natural, and a girl behaving like a girl... :confused:
I'm clueless :p
 
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I'm mostly worried about my injection loom though, as the vires are so thin, and nothing is there to protect them anymore, as the plastic pipe surround has just crumbled to dust. Have you looked at yours yet?

Well, I've had a look at the injection loom. A few scruffy bits of tape hanging off, but it all seems securely wrapped up in split trunking so I'll leave it alone.

You can say what you like about the state of the art / state of that (take your pick) battery securing arrangement - it was like that when I got the car. It's only a feeble 40Ah battery too. I had power steering failure once within a week of getting the car, but have taken the precautions of parking with the wheels straight and letting the battery recover before setting off and it hasn't happened again, so again I'll leave it alone for now.
 

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I have the "wrong" battery in my car with a wood spacer. I just painted the wood black. Sorted. The "correct" battery was twice the price for the same capacity.


50AH has worked just fine for a year and I see no reason why it should not go for a very long time. My motorbike with two 600cc cylinders to swing had a 14AH battery which lasted 5 years. Those two big slugs put far more strain on the starter than four 350cc jobbies.
 
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