portland_bill said:

Lovely comment about the controls not being part of a team.
I've not driven it yet, apart from moving it a little on the drive. It is raining hard now, so it can wait. I can get used to it anytime over the next three days, as first day of work for it is Wednesday.
No idea what power option it is. No paperwork to say. Will peer under the bonnet more closely when (if) the rain stops.

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If it's got rear discs and is a petrol it's a turbo. Drums it's an 82, no need to mince on with opening the passenger door to get to the bonnet release.

I like ours, it requires an attitude adjustment to get on with once you're on the same page it's quite usable but the throttle, gearbox and clutch are very learner unfriendly. It's a hard car to drive smoothly, which the soft suspension exacerbates as it will pitch about if you get it wrong.

StevenRB45 said:

I hope for your sake it's an 82 not a 110 turbo, as in 1st and 2nd the turbo lag can make for some interesting moments when after a second or so of lethargy it takes off with the traction control light flashing. The 82 at least has no turbo and short gears to compensate, the 110 has huge gears for a 5 speed (2500 rpm at 70) and turbo characteristics that mean throttle position is something that occupies more thought than it should, with lag followed by unexpected/occasionally unrequested speed arriving once the boost hits.

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Know exactly what you mean. After 4 years I'm now pretty familiar with our 95hp Ibiza petrol turbo but poor Mrs J still gets caught out big time on occasion. She has trouble with speed bumps particularly - as did I to begin with. As you approach, probably in 2nd gear, you are off the throttle slowing down so exhaust pressure is low. Then you bump over the obstruction and put your foot down lightly on the throttle as you would in the Panda, expecting the revs to gently pick up. Absolutely nothing happens so you push it down a bit further, still nothing happens. By now you are about a car length or so past the bump. So the temptation is to really "sink" the pedal! If you do, after an instant of further reluctance, just as you describe, the car hurtles off at a great rate of acceleration and tries to bury itself up the backside of the car in front!

A different approach yields satisfactory results but takes a bit of getting used to and is not intuitive. Approach the bump - or whatever - in the same way, foot off throttle slowing down. As the front wheels climb up onto the bump sink the throttle about half way to the floor then as the rear wheels are leaving the bump the boost starts to kick in and you need to back off the throttle a little (depending on how much acceleration you wish to achieve). It's all very strange at first because you are applying throttle when your brain is telling you to stay off the throttle and actually lifting your right foot slightly - as acceleration kicks in - just when normally (say in the Panda) you would be pushing the pedal down a little more.

Interestingly there seems to be programming which stops this being a problem when pulling away from a standstill, say at a junction where you will likely be sitting with the engine ticking over. Preparatory to moving off you will depress the clutch pedal and select 1st gear. If you listen carefully (you hardly hear the engine at tick over) you can hear the engine revs rise very slightly as you depress the pedal and then when you let the clutch bite, even at quite low revs, power is immediately available, so there's no problem getting out at a junction if you need to do so "sharpish". It's only in situations where you let engine revs drop low, (I guess under about 1500 rpm) without dipping the clutch, so speed bumps and crawling in traffic etc, that this becomes a nuisance. Now I compensate so automatically that I find myself getting caught out when I'm driving the Panda!

PS Glad I didn't specify the more powerful version of this engine. Although, thinking about it, it might have worn out those hated Bridgestones more quickly?

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

PS Glad I didn't specify the more powerful version of this engine. Although, thinking about it, it might have worn out those hated Bridgestones more quickly?

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Could be worse the citroen has about 30 ft/lb more torque, more bhp and waterbed springs!

You brain does calibrate your foot and after a little while you don't notice you're lifting off as the boost comes in to keep things smooth e.t.c.

Until I get back into the Mazda obviously and light the front tyres after doing a 4.5k rpm rolling burnout.

Approx 11.30 Friday night the 'phone rings. I'm in bed reading but not yet asleep thankfully. It's my Daughter. They are on their way to spending a long weekend at "Auntie's" (my wife's sister) in North Devon.

They have almost completed their journey from near Salisbury to the little hamlet up in the hills behind Barnstaple where "Auntie" lives and the car - fully laden with 2 children and all the luggage - has been loosing power for the last mile or so and finally come to a halt, half way up a steep hill, in a narrow sunken Devon lane! Can You suggest anything Dad?

Not really dear, sorry. Try calling your breakdown people and huddle up under some blankets with the hazzard flashers on? As we are talking I hear a loud voice in the background followed by silence. Hello says I, Hello? Anybody there? Oh Dad, says she, G***** (Husband) has just realized he filled up with petrol as we came through Barnstaple - the car's a diesel.

Daughter has just rung to say their breakdown cover was valid for the miss fueling specialist company which attended, drained the tank, cleared the fuel lines and put a couple of gallons of diesel in before restarting it for them. (apparently the 8th incident he'd attended that day) They are all on their way for a meal somewhere and the car is running just fine. Wonder if future problems await? It's a common rail diesel (KIA). I wouldn't have thought it would take kindly to having been run to a stop on petrol? - I'm thinking seals and finely finished parts like injectors and HP pump etc. I suppose time will tell.

Its the lack of oily lubrication..

Basically its just been 'treated' to a solvent bath.

However.. it was drained and flushed

Many just realise the mistake..and keep topping up with diesel.. for days

These seem to fare ok too


A few years ago a local supermarket filled an Unleaded tank .. with diesel

The 70+ cars stumbling to a halt in a 10 mile radius gave it away..

How do you stop that as a customer..

I remember - oh dear, here he goes again, get the violins out! - when I first worked in workshops it was not unusual to tip a couple of gallons of petrol into a commercial vehicles diesel tank in winter. I believe it made the fuel less liable to waxing and made starting slightly easier.

That was back in the days well before common rail with in line and distributor type pumps being the norm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_pump

I still have my swan neck for spill timing inline pumps which proudly hangs from the lock loop on the lid of my tool chest:



Google or You Tube "Spill Timing" if you're interested. Far to big a subject to discuss here. Cummins have a really good 26 minute video on there:



Now a days it's all common rail, controlled by computers which, basically, trigger solenoid or piezo injectors:



Very different to the stuff I learned on. Strongly advised not to put any petrol in! Anyway modern diesel fuels have anti waxing additives added at source in winter time so the original reason for adding the petrol is now not valid and there's glow plugs now to aid cold starting too.

After several reports over recent years, as you mention Charlie, of fuel being incorrectly supplied from the pump I now - and I'm sure the med people, and probably health and safety, will throw up their hands in horror at this - carefully trigger the pump nozzle very gently with the end of the nozzle not quite fully inserted into the filler pipe. That way I can both see and smell the fuel which is being dispensed. I only do this for a second or so, just long enough to reassure me that the correct fuel is being dispensed then I fully insert the nozzle and continue to "click off" then pause for a second or two for everything to settle and "click off" a second time. I appreciate spillage is a possibility if your trigger control is not good but, in at least 10 years of doing it this way, I've never had a problem.

If you have a capless fuel system..

You get an early warning..

Any residual fuel in a hose will be spat back as you attempt to connect the hose..

varesecrazy said:

A few years ago a local supermarket filled an Unleaded tank .. with diesel

The 70+ cars stumbling to a halt in a 10 mile radius gave it away..

How do you stop that as a customer..

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A very few of us real anoraks will notice the smell, and if not too noisy on the forecourt, the fuels sound different as they pass through and out of the nozzle. (Why do I not get asked back to parties?)

StevenRB45 said:

If it's got rear discs and is a petrol it's a turbo. Drums it's an 82, no need to mince on with opening the passenger door to get to the bonnet release.

I like ours, it requires an attitude adjustment to get on with once you're on the same page it's quite usable but the throttle, gearbox and clutch are very learner unfriendly. It's a hard car to drive smoothly, which the soft suspension exacerbates as it will pitch about if you get it wrong.

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It has been sitting there since it was delivered on Friday, so with the weather eased a little I had a better look. Drums, no turbo under the bonnet.

Had a little read of the pared down handbook. After gaining the basics, I wished to pair the phone. No phone details in the handbook supplied. A note says available in the full handbook, available online. So off to Citroen website, follow 'My Citroen' said the book, seems to be missing from the website. Found a 'download the My Citroen' app, which requires Android or Apple. So anyone without a smartphone, is locked out of the full handbook? There was another web address in the book, so slowly typed that in. All in French. Book says once there choose language - no option appeared. My rudimentary French found a menu, and once into sub-menus language option appeared at bottom of page. So the website has been designed by the same clowns who did the car?
Eventually found the phone details page, very little extra detail, and no mention of deleting when done. Thankfully, found that on the screen in the car, but would have liked to read before committing to pairing.

Went for a drive - oh dear! Don't anyone consider buying one blind, have a good test drive. Steven says 82hp, they seem to be well hidden. Performance is adequate/gentle. Most 3 cyl engines I've driven have either been tuned for low-rev torque, or they rev high to give their power. Thsi does neither. Low down it bimbles along, push harder, the revs rise, makes lots of nice 3cyl noises, produces little in forward force.

Glad it is for a limited period, looking forward to giving it back.

Found the mirror adjust switch, on the dash. Have to lean forward to reach it, changing the view in the mirrors as I do so. Genius. It rotates to select left or right, but the 'click' is quite weak, so it goes beyond, and folds them in. That works well then.

Steering wheel still too close. Makes a mockery of the fore/aft adjustment, as choices are near your chest, or in your teeth. Hands at 'ten-to-two' are near shoulders, or beside your ears. Any need for evasive manoeuvres are likely to fail.

If the new Corsa is based on this, Vauxhall are doomed.

Ive just read the story of the 2 Teslas ..going in opposite diections that managed to have THE SAME TREE land on their bonnets.

Thankfully no major injuries

The article praised Teslas Autopilot for piling on the brakes..
Both cars stopping just the right distance to get a tree on the bonnet.

Im left thinking..
If the brakes werent piled on

The car wouldve carried on at 45 mph for the 'thinking distance'
No damage..no black eyes

Just a distant tree in the rear view mirror

Perhaps they didn't trust you with the 82bhp so have given you a 60 instead

82 is very leisurely, think about 14 to 60..however the alternative is you get to teach people in something that does 0-60 in 9 seconds and has a throttle that only operates as a device to request more speed..rather than giving you precise control of how much!

Never had any issues with the infotainment personally both phones were paired without need of a manual..just as well given it is so abridged as to be pointless.

What is quite amusing is you can get the larger C3 aircross with the 82 and people have bought them. I dread to think what that's like 5 up, with luggage on a hill.

I still enjoy driving it...mainly because it is in many ways terrible so tanking on it without causing sea sickness in your passengers requires a level of driving skill verging on an art form.

StevenRB45 said:

Perhaps they didn't trust you with the 82bhp so have given you a 60 instead

Never had any issues with the infotainment personally both phones were paired without need of a manual..just as well given it is so abridged as to be pointless.

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It could well be a 60. It is a dual-controlled hire car, so likely to be as cheap as possible.

Pairing of phones is usually easy, what I wanted to know before I paired, was how easy it was to delete the pairing when the car goes back. That is not in the manual, abridged, or full.

Driving it, two more issues. It has a self-dipping mirror, without an 'off' button. So I don't get to decide whether I can see who's following me or not. And the sensor is top centre, creating its own blind spot, and very irritating. With the Fiestas I covered the spot with a white paper dot sticker, prevented it darkening, and less irritating. If I do it to this, I'll forget to scrape it off.
It has a rather large footrest. So unless I wear ballet shoes, a lot of care needs to be taken with left foot position, or it contacts the rest, preventing full clutch depression. I can see the dual being used well to prevent stalling or running on towards trouble.

I was quite surprised that the screenwash operation stops the wipers when you let go. A long time since I encountered any car that did not wipe 2-3 more times.

The engine should be fine! Oil level well above max on the stick. Perhaps to compensate for the low front tyre pressures, althought the rears were spot-on.

Amazing really, after making cars for so many years, they are all still quite different, and lots still have flaws.

You never know - a few Italian tune-ups might release the GGs

Used it now for two days, trip to Cheltenham/Gloucester on Wednesday, some distance on the dual-carriageway seems to have found a bit more power, although the cruise struggles on any vague slope.
Overall 47mpg, compared with the Fabia insisting on staying above 50mpg on similar use, with more power and easier driving as a result.
The centre screen is too bright, tolerable in the daytime, but once dark very distracting. Seems ot be no way to turn it off, and dimming seems to be with the main display, which becomes impossible to read before the centre screen becomes tolerable.
Hopefully rid of it today, Fabia promised to be complete, but time moving on and no phone call yet. I guess they'll want me to fight my way into Swindon against the peak traffic.

I have criticised the Fiesta for its body control, being very wobbly/jiggly. This C3 is so much worse. Not just soft and jiggly, but over 50mph it keeps twitching. It is like a supermarket trolly where all four wheels randomly snatch momentarily, never knowing which will twitch next. Makes progress hard work just trying to keep on your own side of the road and pointing ahead. Made worse by a steering wheel that feels like it is not connected to anything. Fiesta was my most disliked car, I think it has been usurped by the C3.

My old banger of a grande mj.

Was getting tired..so I bought a better..but more expensive..replacement

2ebay winning bidders later.. I was still in posession

Did the couple of jobs it needed..
Handbrake cables.. grubby job.. but £26 in parts and now the nicest of the 4

Other job was a inner CV

BOOT AND JOINT

Used ebay.. cheap used parts

Drives better.. and 12 months ticket

Its the best driving.. but the highest mileage.. (and scruffiest..)

Which one to sell..

portland_bill said:

Used it now for two days, trip to Cheltenham/Gloucester on Wednesday, some distance on the dual-carriageway seems to have found a bit more power, although the cruise struggles on any vague slope.
Overall 47mpg, compared with the Fabia insisting on staying above 50mpg on similar use, with more power and easier driving as a result.
The centre screen is too bright, tolerable in the daytime, but once dark very distracting. Seems ot be no way to turn it off, and dimming seems to be with the main display, which becomes impossible to read before the centre screen becomes tolerable.
Hopefully rid of it today, Fabia promised to be complete, but time moving on and no phone call yet. I guess they'll want me to fight my way into Swindon against the peak traffic.

I have criticised the Fiesta for its body control, being very wobbly/jiggly. This C3 is so much worse. Not just soft and jiggly, but over 50mph it keeps twitching. It is like a supermarket trolly where all four wheels randomly snatch momentarily, never knowing which will twitch next. Makes progress hard work just trying to keep on your own side of the road and pointing ahead. Made worse by a steering wheel that feels like it is not connected to anything. Fiesta was my most disliked car, I think it has been usurped by the C3.

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At this point I feel as though they gave you faulty one..

If ours has one redeeming feature it's that for a city car it's great at motorway cruising. Ours being a turbo has more than enough power to hold whatever speed you choose within reason, and will lope along quite happily for long distances. It'll also return over 50mpg doing this but it has much longer gears than the cheapo version. Probably different suspension as well by the sound of it.. if anything ours is stable and comfortable in a straight line it's the encouraging it to do something else where the issues occur.

Also centre screen brightness is adjustable and can be switched off with a two button command I discovered the day we picked the car up.

But I've never switched it off..cos it's fine so I imagine a previous user has turned the brightness up to collapsed sun for a laugh (brightness control is logically on the same menu as the off control.) It also dims automatically when the headlamps come on, but you can also switch that off..

Its now approaching a long-established car ins. renewal date for me

Got an offer in the post :
£115 .. for my 1.9 marea..
great.. but it went for scrap a year ago

Replaced by my old banger of a grande

Went on current insurers website..to view the renewal notice
Correct Grande
Correct Reg no.

BUT:-
Its a VAN..??

SO.. FAUX.PAS at their end.. or 1st registered VAT free ??


As importantly.. if I'd had a big accident with 4 adults on board.. would they play the 'VAN card' and worm out of cover..

Been bitten before.. so have my doubts

A neighbour down the road owns an old Transit van, uses it 2-3 days a week, and prefers to park it opposite my house. These transits can be a bit noisy, and as the glowplugs get old, difficult to start. His is both.
Happened to be looking out of the window this morning as he approached the van. He tried to get in, before he unlocked the door - no remote, has to turn the key in the door, so why try the door first?
He hopped in, inserted the ignition key and turned it immediately to the start position. So that explains the poor starting then, on those the glowplugs need a few seconds to heat up, but not given that opportunity.
Once started, he fiddled with the heater controls, popped on the sidelights only, and lurched forwards. Being close to the car ahead, there was no way it was turning out without a reverse, obvious before getting in, if he'd bothered to think about that. He had approached from the front. Into reverse, steering applied, lurched back onto the footpath, not bothering with any mirror checks, steered out, lurched forwards again, and out into the road, then did his first mirror check to see the car waiting. No apology, just off down the road, no seatbelt.
We have to share the road with this person!

portland_bill said:

A neighbour down the road owns an old Transit van, uses it 2-3 days a week, and prefers to park it opposite my house. These transits can be a bit noisy, and as the glowplugs get old, difficult to start. His is both.
Happened to be looking out of the window this morning as he approached the van. He tried to get in, before he unlocked the door - no remote, has to turn the key in the door, so why try the door first?
He hopped in, inserted the ignition key and turned it immediately to the start position. So that explains the poor starting then, on those the glowplugs need a few seconds to heat up, but not given that opportunity.
Once started, he fiddled with the heater controls, popped on the sidelights only, and lurched forwards. Being close to the car ahead, there was no way it was turning out without a reverse, obvious before getting in, if he'd bothered to think about that. He had approached from the front. Into reverse, steering applied, lurched back onto the footpath, not bothering with any mirror checks, steered out, lurched forwards again, and out into the road, then did his first mirror check to see the car waiting. No apology, just off down the road, no seatbelt.
We have to share the road with this person!

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Possibly time for a tyre valve to spring a leak.

Cleaned the Mini today, just finished and looking it over for any residual polish or streaks and noticed the Punto parked behind it....
have been driving back and forth at weekends across country and haven’t washed it since last year. 3 storms flooded areas and driving down farm tracks meant that you couldn’t really see through the puntos windows anymore....

Cleaned the windows of the Punto, well the ones I look through anyway. The rest of the car still looks like it’s been living on a pig farm.