StevenRB45 said:

You're comparing something that was about a 2 grand option to something that's basically free in most modern cars.

I agree it's a cheap way of bringing this tech into cars..but given my head unit cost less than fitting gesture control to a new 5 series you'd hope you got some advantages.

Not entirely sure what the obsession with prodding at the screen is. Mines been cleaned once..after I first got it, it occasionally needs a dust but you don't get fingerprints on something you use by voice control and steering wheel buttons. Literally get in, plug my phone on the USB..and don't touch it or my phone until it's time to get out again.

As mines aftermarket I could actually circumvent the car versions and go full screen mirroring which allows you to watch I player, films and browse the internet..but I don't, although it's cool when you are waiting for someone..I even have the handbrake switch connected so if you are in android auto and make more than a momentary gesture on the screen it goes black and displays the message "focus on road".

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Pro Navigation was standard in my car. In fact, it's now standard in a lot of BMWs.

I spend half my working life in the car, sometimes even more... I browse music, radio channels, check traffic info, or even check the trip computer.

This can all be done with the dial, the screen would be a mess by the end of a week if it was touch screen.

Another bank holiday weekend, and the sound of sirens most of the day.

Schumi2001 said:

Pro Navigation was standard in my car. In fact, it's now standard in a lot of BMWs.

I spend half my working life in the car, sometimes even more... I browse music, radio channels, check traffic info, or even check the trip computer.

This can all be done with the dial, the screen would be a mess by the end of a week if it was touch screen.

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I can do all those things in both our cars..without touching the touchscreen.

It's easier if you do for some operations but I have a microfiber cloth in the glovebox for interior cleaning.

Tbf though I would more likely check the traffic and music on my way to the car, then on plugging it in that information is immediately ready without having to press anything at all.

Credit to anyone who can get voice control to ever work properly in any car. It's the most frustrating and distracting load of old cobblers ever fitted to cars. Even worse than a glossy touch screen.

I check the traffic whilst en-route, when I start a journey, the traffic may be fine, but I'll look at alternatives if RTTI gives me an alert.

Touch screens really shouldn't be in moving vehicles, regardless of how good the voice control is. And it's universally useless if you actually spend a lot of time in cars.

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Schumi2001 said:

Credit to anyone who can get voice control to ever work properly in any car. It's the most frustrating and distracting load of old cobblers ever fitted to cars. Even worse than a glossy touch screen.

I check the traffic whilst en-route, when I start a journey, the traffic may be fine, but I'll look at alternatives if RTTI gives me an alert.

Touch screens really shouldn't be in moving vehicles, regardless of how good the voice control is. And it's universally useless if you actually spend a lot of time in cars.

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Well I'm Geordie, don't so much have an accent as I've got a speech impediment yet it works for me. Clearly I'm not going to say "how wor kid tek us to the chippy" but if you speak English and spend 30 seconds learning the format commands need to be in it's fine.

So something that does the same thing the idrive does is universally useless? That's an interesting argument.

Also you say touchscreens are distracting but are quite happy to take your eyes off the road to look at a traffic map? I-drive or touchscreen, the information is still relayed via a screen which you control with hand movements. Having said that Googlemaps uses both it's own data and owns Waze so you tend to find yourself on the fastest route..there has been a few times where it had interrupted my music to tell me there has been an accident ahead causing x delay and offering an alternative so you don't tend to need to mess about doing that manually.

I tend to use mine to actually go places I know the way to, not because I'm worried about getting lost, but because it has mobile speed camera warnings and is linked to business listings. So if we pick a day out, and put it in the nav the system will warn us if it's currently ridiculously busy, if theres traffic or cameras on the way and if it's going to be shut when we get there. Not necessarily essential information but if you have it to hand might as well use it.

We will never agree on this, mostly because we both use the in-car tech. in very different ways and obviously have significantly different use profiles of our cars.

iDrive is held up as the example of how to make in-car tech. work - in all group reviews the BMW always wins the in-car tech. section.

My issue with touch screens is that you require significant extra concentration to reach forward and hit the 'target' on the screen as the car moves about. A fixed controller, where your arm is stabilised, is quicker and less frustrating.

Fair enough, but compared to most proprietary manufacturer systems Android Auto and Car play are better and are under continuous development..and give every car you use them in the same capabilities.

That's the thing, if you've ever used a 3 year old e-my way system in a Peugeot or the frankly pathetic system that Mazda fitted as standard to cars of the same vintage as mine then you would realise there's nothing more distracting than a system you don't trust/doesn't work as it should.

Proprietary systems are fine for the 1st owner of the car..or should be though most owners forums beg to differ but 5 years down the line they are embarrassing 10 years down the line it looks like an etch a sketch. Most manufacturers don't tend to follow through with supporting their operating systems once the new model is out.

This very much smacks of “Ive tried one thing, it does what I want and I’m not prepared to try anything else”

It’s very clear from the comments that you’ve not used android auto or CarPlay.

They do all the things you’re praising the bmw system for but as pointed out can be fitted to any car and not just to a £30k+ single manufacturers cars. Also as I’ve repeatedly pointed out the latest editions of idrive are touchscreens with Apple carplay, because that’s what people want and that’s the easiest streaming system to use.

Normally wouldn't post this but given the thread of the conversation, story that just dropped today:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...oogle-android-auto-summer-visual-update-2019/

Android Auto getting a refresh, big news is a new (and presumably slightly car play inspired) interface change. Also in car screens are getting wider so it can now detect that and compensate, redesign for opening apps to require fewer screen presses. Oh and they added that multi screen thing from idrive.

Coming soon to every android auto user for free.

This is why proprietary systems are doomed, can you imagine BMW or any other manufacturer recalling all its cars to fit the latest system for free? They never would because they make money from planned obsolescence, it's how they encourage you to upgrade.

But in the case of manufacturers whose systems have never worked properly, it is a nice easy way out, give the customer screen and any car can have top end nav and infotainment options...even if its attached to pound shop speakers and amps.

Car manufacturers have always hard installed their software. It "can" be updated but only by the dealer when the do the silly money service routine.

Tesla update over the net just like any mobile phone, but upset them (e.g. by doing you own servicing) and updates stop. Another major own goal as they'll simply cause values of older cars to collapse.

Thing is, though, that Android in particular goes out of date quicker than your car... most Android phone manufacturers don't support vanilla Android updates, so you're reliant on the manufacturer support, which very often is cut within a couple of years.

iOS is better, but I had to grab an old iPhone 5 from my office drawer after dropping my business iPhone 7 this week. That is now on an ancient OS which can't be updated, too.

No system is perfect.

Schumi2001 said:

Thing is, though, that Android in particular goes out of date quicker than your car... most Android phone manufacturers don't support vanilla Android updates, so you're reliant on the manufacturer support, which very often is cut within a couple of years.

iOS is better, but I had to grab an old iPhone 5 from my office drawer after dropping my business iPhone 7 this week. That is now on an ancient OS which can't be updated, too.

No system is perfect.

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Again I agree to an extent, but I could attach a Samsung S4 to my head unit (I have one in a drawer as a spare it, can run Android auto)..a phone released in 2013 and it would still have access to the same maps and route guidance as the latest phone with the latest operating system. Theres a decent chance the maps on it would be more up to date than the ones available to your Idrive.

Planned obsolescence is thing in phones as it is in cars, but the order of magnitude cost difference makes a new phone a much cheaper route than a new car. Also if it runs the app..it has the same capabilities..regardless of what you're running it on. Obviously newer phones see better performance, but you don't lose features on old models (can't speak for apple in that respect).

Imagine having to use the original idrive in a 2003 7 series everyday..its horrifically dated..but you cannot get rid of it. Whereas my screen will display whatever the attached phone tells it to..unless they change the Standard entirely for both CarPlay and Android Auto...and screen mirroring it will always be current at least for the natural life of the car.

That and the budget spent on Google mapping services and voice recognition is more than BMW spends on the entire 5 series nevermind the infotainment.

When I had a Mk6 Golf GT I remember having to specifically locate an ancient phone as it used a Bluetooth standard which people had forgotten about years ago. So you can't guarantee that Car Play / Android Auto on today's cars will work with tomorrow's phones.

You're always going to be reliant on something not changing.

Again, it's down to expectations and use - will Car Play or similar put the turn by turn information with graphics of complicated road layouts on the info screen between the speedometer and rev-counter? Will it display on the latest digital dash in front of the driver and will it interface with the HUD in the same way?

I can see why people in lower end and older cars love the whole CarPlay thing, but if you're running a succession of brand new fleet cars for 4 years and handing them back, getting one with a fully sorted and integrated system is best.

To be fair, we have a policy (which I should always follow) of 'belt on, phone off' - so in theory, I shouldn't be using CarPlay in a company car - and I have a feeling I couldn't even order it as an option - I once tried to order 'enhanced bluetooth' and had it rejected as it may encourage me to make calls whilst driving.

Again yes, it is possible that they may stop supporting car play or AA. It is significantly less likely than a manufacturer dumping a system though as the user numbers are massive compared to proprietary systems and tbf they are a great way of creating marketable "big data" that other companies will buy for self driving cars, insurance ratings, marketing e.t.c. I've made my peace with that last bit..but I know other people may not have.

At this point no..guidance appears on the screen only not the instrument cluster. But when I first used Google maps nav 5 years ago, it didn't have lane assist, or voice commands, they added it, it didn't read out what was on the road sign you were looking for...they added it. You couldn't have satellite photos rather than a map, now you can if you prefer to see a green and pleasant land on your dash. As it develops they add more and more capability, it may well be they do add support as time goes on.

I drove an onstar equipped corsa Sri (my boss has a sense of humour apparently so hired me the most radge car they could find for a site visit) in 2014, which was my first ever use of android auto. Luckily for owners of that car and every Vauxhall for the last 5 years they made they included it. While the concierge service and wifi was an interesting idea..they are no longer supporting it at all from end of this year. All those cars would have no traffic updates/no map updates the works. As it was I didn't use it anyway..just plugged my phone in but you'd be foaming if you owned one and the touchscreen had become a paperweight overnight.

With regards to music on CarPlay etc, what about people who don't use Spotify, etc?

With regards to built in satnav vs mobile apps, I have a 2016 Garmin portable navigation system which my parents bought for me as a birthday present. When looking at the range of satnavs on the market at that time, the model they bought me had several reviews saying that it was far better than the built in systems offered by car manufacturers.

Schumi2001 said:

When I had a Mk6 Golf GT I remember having to specifically locate an ancient phone as it used a Bluetooth standard which people had forgotten about years ago. So you can't guarantee that Car Play / Android Auto on today's cars will work with tomorrow's phones.

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My 2015 golf Cabriolet is technically a mk6 with mk7 tech. It has the latest audio set up with carplay and android auto. And the bluetooth stand is irrelevant as both these systems predominantly work via a wired connection. That said the latest new cars like *cough* bmw *cough* use the new Bluetooth connection for carplay.

You're always going to be reliant on something not changing. Things will always change. The life cycle of most cars is around 10 years once you get beyond 10 years it’s goimg to be unlikely that the latest phones will still work the same, that said my wife’s brand new iPhone XR still works and connects fine with blue and me in my evo (that said a lot of people are not so lucky)

Schumi2001 said:

Again, it's down to expectations and use - will Car Play or similar put the turn by turn information with graphics of complicated road layouts on the info screen between the speedometer and rev-counter? Will it display on the latest digital dash in front of the driver and will it interface with the HUD in the same way?

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Yes, yes it will. Sadly my car was an early adopter of car play so It didn’t support it but cars after 2016 had this ability if the car manufacturers fitted the right bits to support it, it’s due to fitting the right components in the car. It will do what ever the phone does, if they update the phone it will reflect that as well. A couple of years ago they did an update and added the speed limit of what ever road you are driving on, except in France where it’s illegal to have that information, far smarter than a dumb satnav unit that needs to have a £60 map update once a year.

Schumi2001 said:

I can see why people in lower end and older cars love the whole CarPlay thing, but if you're running a succession of brand new fleet cars for 4 years and handing them back, getting one with a fully sorted and integrated system is best.

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Actually fleet companies love car play and android auto, because it’s a wired connection and you don’t need anything special, just an iPhone or android phone, the majority of people can get in the car plug it in and everything just works, no messing about with Bluetooth pairing, no 47 phones logged in the cars Bluetooth memory. Hands free calling works, data streaming just works, anyone can go from one car to any other can plug their phone in and have their own customised screen in what ever car they drive, leaving no traces behind.

Schumi2001 said:

To be fair, we have a policy (which I should always follow) of 'belt on, phone off' - so in theory, I shouldn't be using CarPlay in a company car - and I have a feeling I couldn't even order it as an option - I once tried to order 'enhanced bluetooth' and had it rejected as it may encourage me to make calls whilst driving.

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That’s fine you don’t buy your own car, some of us do and we want the better options not the basic kit.

It’s worth noting though that most dealers can now add carplay as an option after the car is sold, the latest bmw idrive system you can download it as an app and install it yourself if your happy to spend the money.

puntofan01 said:

With regards to music on CarPlay etc, what about people who don't use Spotify, etc?

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What about them?
I have a few thousand songs on my phone, I can play those. I have a usb or sad card slot to play music from if I so wish. I have a CD player if you wanna take it back to 2004, but most people have used some music player or another for 10 - 15 years now. Even my technologically incompetent parents have an Alexa they use to stream music on prime, you could easily pair an echo dot up to the Bluetooth in my car and plug it into the USB port for power, conect WiFi to your phone and you have all the functionality of a speaker assistant in your car.

puntofan01 said:

With regards to built in satnav vs mobile apps, I have a 2016 Garmin portable navigation system which my parents bought for me as a birthday present. When looking at the range of satnavs on the market at that time, the model they bought me had several reviews saying that it was far better than the built in systems offered by car manufacturers.

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Because the systems offered by car manufacturers, historically where never very good, a few years out of date by the time they made it into the car (take the blue and me tom Tom for example which I believe you can still buy) and they always needed an update before you drove the car home.

You can’t easily plug in an car satnav and update maps, usually you need to buy an expensive sd card now or in the past CD sometimes £hundreds to update the maps, the likes of Garmin and Tomtom you could update the maps with a £40 - £60 download on your home computer.

My 4 year old phone still has the latest maps and Apple updates all completely free, so there my carplay is as up to date as the latest phone, it has the lastest maps, with can theoretically update while you are driving. It gives you the latest traffic status, lane changes, speed limits and all 100% upto date with no intervention from me.

Plug my phone into any carplay system into anycar and it is always 100% upto date with everything and personalised for me.

puntofan01 said:

With regards to music on CarPlay etc, what about people who don't use Spotify, etc?

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I always assumed spotify had a a cost attached to it, I used Google play music so never downloaded spotify. They got rid of Groove music on xbox a few years ago so I was forced to get spotify for music on the xbox. At that point I realised that yes there is a free version of spotify it just requires listening to an an AD once every 20 mins or so. As it's literally free theres no reason why you couldn't download it if you were doing this sort of thing, it still has less advertising than radio.

The 3 I have are Google play play music (14.99 PM for 4 people to download whatever they want ad free), Spotify (Free) and BBC iplayer radio (free) which if I'm honest I only have for Radio 4 comedy having reached a certain age. But there are a load more options out there for pod casts and music and most give a free option.

Phones really don't need planned obsolescence - batteries naturally go off and antennas get unreliable. Easily fixed but the thing is now so tatty folks will change it anyway.

DaveMcT said:

Phones really don't need planned obsolescence - batteries naturally go off and antennas get unreliable. Easily fixed but the thing is now so tatty folks will change it anyway.

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Agreed, I've never had a phone longer than about 25 months..

Although I took the opportunity to get a good quality USB port put in when I got my stereo done. Means I get about 1% battery charge for every 2 minutes it's plugged into the car even with location services and music streaming happening. This means whereas pre-stereo it would be down to about 40% by this time of night (it's nearly 2 years old) it's currently on 94% as it gets a bump at least twice a day.

This isn't a universal benefit though..the Citroen has a pound shop USB port so barely provides enough power to maintain battery charge in the same circumstance.

Might be enough that I don't get itchy feet and a new S10 we'll see..