What's made you not grumpy but not smile either today?

[StevenRB45]

I'd still rather not have a touchscreen tbh. The set up I'm used to is old, but works perfectly: the climate control has it's own physical controls, and the stereo can be controlled by the steering wheel buttons.

And I don't think that the handling would be a problem for me, it sounds like it's good fun at legal speeds: perfect!

It still has steering wheel buttons which do the usual. Best one is the voice command button though, when combined with android auto means you can set your set nav, listen to texts and reply by speaking if you wish, make or answer calls or change the music you are listening to or even the program you are using to listen just by speaking. As it uses Google speech recognition it's very accurate indeed.

It's good enough I got a similar system installed in the Mazda at a not inconsiderable cost.

 

[puntofan01]

Fair enough. I still listen to CDs in the car, lol... [emoji23]

 

[x Alex x]

It's a nice thing to have around, not entirely sure how long it would run reliably but you never know with these. A mate of mine bought a 150 quid one as a stop gap after a perpetually broken 3 series and he's now had it longer than he had the 3 series. Its 14 years old with somewhere north of 120k miles on it, it's a shed but it won't die.

First post on here in a long time!

I often wonder if you still had the Mazda when I see one kicking about locally.

As for Citroen I've had a 52 reg hdi picasso for over 3 years to fill a 2 month gap but I've still got it and put 60k on it. £350 and it has been no bother at all apart from the expected consumable in that sort of milage.

I would definitely consider another Citroen although I'm wary of newer cars this old barge has changed my view on Citroens!

 

[StevenRB45]

Fair enough. I still listen to CDs in the car, lol... [emoji23]

I may have taken a 6cd changer out to fit this, I've bluetooth streamed for years so it was never used.

First post on here in a long time!

I often wonder if you still had the Mazda when I see one kicking about locally.

As for Citroen I've had a 52 reg hdi picasso for over 3 years to fill a 2 month gap but I've still got it and put 60k on it. £350 and it has been no bother at all apart from the expected consumable in that sort of milage.

I would definitely consider another Citroen although I'm wary of newer cars this old barge has changed my view on Citroens!

If you get a good one they rock, just a shame bad ones are more common than you'd hope and the dealers tend to be indifferent. Take it the GP disappeared long ago not seen it since about 2015.

Yeah Mazda is still kicking about..mines the one with a weird tribal design spacecraft and an Edinburgh Zoo sticker in the back window! Just tend to avoid Blaydon bank now the lights at Blaydon roundabout have made it faster to take Stargate.

 

[x Alex x]

I may have taken a 6cd changer out to fit this, I've bluetooth streamed for years so it was never used.



If you get a good one they rock, just a shame bad ones are more common than you'd hope and the dealers tend to be indifferent. Take it the GP disappeared long ago not seen it since about 2015.

Yeah Mazda is still kicking about..mines the one with a weird tribal design spacecraft and an Edinburgh Zoo sticker in the back window! Just tend to avoid Blaydon bank now the lights at Blaydon roundabout have made it faster to take Stargate.

Yeah Blaydon bank is a nightmare, I try to avoid it too specially when trying to turn right (coming down the bank)

GP is still with me, it's in the garage awaiting a gearbox rebuild I actually bought the Picasso to use while I sorted it lol! Got pushed to the back of the to do list and forgotten.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I'd still rather not have a touchscreen tbh. The set up I'm used to is old, but works perfectly: the climate control has it's own physical controls, and the stereo can be controlled by the steering wheel buttons.

And I don't think that the handling would be a problem for me, it sounds like it's good fun at legal speeds: perfect!

What’s easier and safer to use, swapping a CD, or saying “hey Siri, play ‘any song I want’ on amazon prime/Spotify/Apple music/ any other streaming service”

Most “touch screens” you don’t need to touch, they all have apps and voice control that links in to services and allows you voice access to millions of songs, without the need to even press a button to get what you want.

CDs require skipping and searching and taking in and out. Then you have to keep them somewhere.

My punto doesn’t have a touch screen but my phone is mounted on the top of the dash and still has the voice control access without pressing a button and will play what I ask, buttons only needed for volume......

It’s not the touch screen that’s better it’s the technology behind it.

 

[Schumi2001]

Touch screens have no place in cars.

You only need to look at BMW iDrive to see how it should be done.

I especially hate cars where the touch screen controls things like the climate control as well as the navigation and stereo.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Touch screens have no place in cars.

You only need to look at BMW iDrive to see how it should be done.

I have a fair amount of experience of the idrive, and I could not agree less, it’s a horrible system, non intuitive at all by today’s standards.

I can literally drive to Paris in my golf with touch screen and Apple car play and not touch the screen once for anything.

I do agree that they shouldn’t be putting car controls on the touch screen, it’s very easy to turn a knob or press a button and when you’re used to a car you don’t need to take your eyes off the road if you want to change the temp or put on a rear window heater, you can’t do this with a touch screen as you can’t physically feel the buttons so have to look and see what you’re doing.

 

[Schumi2001]

BMW are recognised for offering the best solution on the market with their technology.

It's slick, it works, and whilst you need to look at the screen to navigate, you don't have to think about what your left hand is doing. The dial with a mechanical click on turning and selecting is the most natural way to do things.

And you can write on the top of the dial to input destinations, as well as it having voice control.

A colleague has a current shape Tiguan with its silly glossy touchscreen. It's pretty much the very worst bit of tech. I've seen fitted to a modern car.

Older versions of iDrive (pre 2012 1-series) were awful, though.

 

[x Alex x]

I've heard people rave about Vauxhall's entertainment system (or whatever you call it!)

I'm not a fan of touch screens when driving if I'm honest, I don't particularly like digital climate control either I must be getting old fashioned in my older years haha

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Our 2015 mini had the idrive system with the touch top to write on the knob, it really wasn’t all that, lived with that car a year and to be honest the sat nav was ok but not the best, the switching between sat nav, radio, phone and other features was still largely tackled by buttons beside the knob or take your eyes off the road to look at the screen. This was the XL version of the system and they only in the last year have started adding car play and android auto to the bmw/mini system.

The only thing the writing on the knob made easier is entering an address for the sat nav, still one letter at a time and took forever, we also had voice control so usually quicker but much less reliable to do it with voice control.

I’m sorry you can argue all you like about the idrive system it really isn’t all that good, ironically given what you’ve said, going back to 2012 the idrive system was the best thing out there at that time and won awards for its reliability and function.

The VW system is very good, I’ve lived with it for the last 3.5 years and it’s so easy to use, big buttons down the side do anything you want and are easily in line of vision high on the dash, not hidden in the dark between the seats.
And as I said you can pretty much control everything with voice control no need to touch buttons or even take you hands off the wheel.

Most things can be dealt with, with a simple “hey Siri” or ok google or equivalent on android phone. If these systems didn’t work, then why are BMW switching to similar touch screens, in fact why is everyone switching their new cars to touch screens, even the cheapest models. I get people have a preference, but I never hear anyone say they don’t like what they actually have. People with touch screens are not going around complaining about them, only people who don’t have them, have a problem with them.

 

[Schumi2001]

I've had cars with touch screens - going back to a 2007 Prius. Then a 2009 Golf, before getting the 2013 1-series.

Your experience of iDrive is absolutely the opposite of what just about everyone else says - including almost all the motoring press.

The buttons around the dial are intuitive as you soon get 'muscle memory' to recall which ones do which. And the location is spot on - right in front of the arm-rest, so you don't even have to move your arm / hand to access it.

I'm going to miss it when I'm prised out of my 5-series in favour of a lower emissions alternative. Lexus systems are absolutely slated by the press, but it's the only sensible way to cut my ludicrous tax bill.

(Car Play is actually overrated - Pro Nav is very good, especially with RTTI, and I have Deezer integrated with the unlimited EU data SIM card)

 

[StevenRB45]

(Car Play is actually overrated - Pro Nav is very good, especially with RTTI, and I have Deezer integrated with the unlimited EU data SIM card)

I would imagine the reason CarPlay and Android Auto are making inroads is sheer ease and cost.

1st unlike 98% of automotive voice command systems devised they work.

2nd unlike 99.97% of all built in satnavs ever fitted to cars they are a doddle to update for free, literally plug your phone in on wifi and it'll sort it out.

3rd because you are using the same music accounts you do on the bus or walking or whatever you can just keep listening to what you were listening to.

4th Most in car navigation systems fitted to cars are expensive and barely fit for purpose after 3 years.

5th, it doesn't matter if you're in a Ford, a Vauxhall, A Citroen, A Volkswagen, whatever you learn the system you've learnt it it, is the same in all applications, no hopping between cars and thinking "ok what Masonic handshake is required to get this to work?"

6th, Every time you upgrade your phone...your car nav gets faster and more capable.

Final one would be, it's cheaper for manufacturers..which means it goes into cheaper cars giving them capabilities they would never have had otherwise.

Oh and what's made me neither smile nor grumpy...well my lovely son, who has chosen this time to get up.

 

[Eklipze3k]

I would imagine the reason CarPlay and Android Auto are making inroads is sheer ease and cost.

1st unlike 98% of automotive voice command systems devised they work.

2nd unlike 99.97% of all built in satnavs ever fitted to cars they are a doddle to update for free, literally plug your phone in on wifi and it'll sort it out.

3rd because you are using the same music accounts you do on the bus or walking or whatever you can just keep listening to what you were listening to.

4th Most in car navigation systems fitted to cars are expensive and barely fit for purpose after 3 years.

5th, it doesn't matter if you're in a Ford, a Vauxhall, A Citroen, A Volkswagen, whatever you learn the system you've learnt it it, is the same in all applications, no hopping between cars and thinking "ok what Masonic handshake is required to get this to work?"

6th, Every time you upgrade your phone...your car nav gets faster and more capable.

Final one would be, it's cheaper for manufacturers..which means it goes into cheaper cars giving them capabilities they would never have had otherwise.

Oh and what's made me neither smile nor grumpy...well my lovely son, who has chosen this time to get up.

7th, even older cars with Apple/Android based systems will still be able to be used as long as these systems continue to drive the majority of phones, no need to invest in expensive aftermarket kit just to try and keep the car up-to-date.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

(Car Play is actually overrated - Pro Nav is very good, especially with RTTI, and I have Deezer integrated with the unlimited EU data SIM card)

Don't get me wrong, iDrive is still a very good system compared to alot of others out there, however it is not the greatest imo, That said with the discussion being about Touch Screen, its worth noting the lastest versions of iDrive are all touch screen and while they have kept the knob at the moment it is not now needed at all as everything can be achieved with the touch screen and even gesture control which is creeping in on many new cars.

The knob you can write on like a touch screen was a nice touch but in right hand drive countries made you use it with your left hand, (not a problem for me I'm left handed) but given that most of the population are right handed it was really designed for use in left hand drive cars also if you don't drive a car often enough or like me you drive lots of different cars regularly, you don't get muscle memory for using something when that something is constantly changing.

So with the Question of touch screens being at hand, then if they were bad why would even the BMW iDrive be switching to touch screen, and if CarPlay was so over rated then why do the majority of people want it ? to the extent that its now available on iDrive, BMW tried to resist as long as they could but gave up last year... 4 years after Carplay was launched.

 

[Schumi2001]

I know BMW have added touch and gesture - but I don't know anyone who actually prods at their screen. We have a number of cars with the latest iDrive in the fleet - everyone still uses the controller.

Touch screens are bad because they get covered in fingerprints and you have to concentrate to keep your hand steady enough to hit the buttons needed.

As for car play etc., it has gained momentum where manufacturers saw it as a cheap way to get tech onto the touch screen.

But it only works on touch screens (hence BMW not supporting it in the past) and decreases functionality vs. iDrive apps. (Deezer, Spotify and Amazon Music - possibly even Apple Music) which allow multi-tasking and split screen displays in my car. You have to switch apps if you're using car play, for example.

 

[StevenRB45]

You're comparing something that was about a 2 grand option to something that's basically free in most modern cars.

I agree it's a cheap way of bringing this tech into cars..but given my head unit cost less than fitting gesture control to a new 5 series you'd hope you got some advantages.

Not entirely sure what the obsession with prodding at the screen is. Mines been cleaned once..after I first got it, it occasionally needs a dust but you don't get fingerprints on something you use by voice control and steering wheel buttons. Literally get in, plug my phone on the USB..and don't touch it or my phone until it's time to get out again.

As mines aftermarket I could actually circumvent the car versions and go full screen mirroring which allows you to watch I player, films and browse the internet..but I don't, although it's cool when you are waiting for someone..I even have the handbrake switch connected so if you are in android auto and make more than a momentary gesture on the screen it goes black and displays the message "focus on road".

 

[SB1500]

My 05 Panda has an aftermarket Pioneer radio fitted. Auxiliary in connects my iPhones audio. I set it up on the newly added gap below the single din radio with the mic pointed out. I use the Hey Siri command to trigger it and ask for directions , music etc. Does perfectly and the iPhones noise cancellation means I can have good conversations while driving. No looking away from the road. Yet my car has no built in microphones or steering wheel controls.

New Panda will have Bluetooth and mics and that handily little stand. Sure it’s a cheap way out for Fiat, but it means a new phone is a new system over the years

 

[x Alex x]

My 05 Panda has an aftermarket Pioneer radio fitted. Auxiliary in connects my iPhones audio. I set it up on the newly added gap below the single din radio with the mic pointed out. I use the Hey Siri command to trigger it and ask for directions , music etc. Does perfectly and the iPhones noise cancellation means I can have good conversations while driving. No looking away from the road. Yet my car has no built in microphones or steering wheel controls.

New Panda will have Bluetooth and mics and that handily little stand. Sure it’s a cheap way out for Fiat, but it means a new phone is a new system over the years

If you don't mind, what fascia did you use? The stereo I've ordered for the panda is double din but I'm looking at a cheapo fascia on eBay was wondering what sort of fit they were. Not expecting factory fit bit reasonably looking is all I want

 

[SB1500]

If you don't mind, what fascia did you use? The stereo I've ordered for the panda is double din but I'm looking at a cheapo fascia on eBay was wondering what sort of fit they were. Not expecting factory fit bit reasonably looking is all I want

Some cheap eBay job way back in 2015. Did a disaster job at fitting it, it’s superglued in! Couldn’t get the pioneer wiring / harness to fit in right. Needless to say it’ll be intact until the bitter end for the car! Things rammed in there good!

Not great to be honest. Though the Panda dash would suit a full double din touchscreen perfectly!