My fault - not "WITH whole pipe", but "whole pipe" - so new 2nd exhaust part including flex

Guys, what you adviced to put into cylinders during night to free up piston rings? Kerosene?

Doesn't matter much what it is. Soaking time is crucial (like 24-48 h., minimum).
You need to dump a lot into cylinders = oil change after is rather obligatory. And don't kill the cat. converter.
So straight Kerosene (lamp oil) might work. Or Diesel fuel. Or multi-purpose liquids (WD-40). Or just Gasoline.
You should add some oil to this (engine oil, or ATF). And maybe other chemicals (small amounts), solvents (acetone), penetrating oils, or DMSO.
There are some recipes in the internet, search...

Thanks for info, as usual ;-)

Rado77 said:

Thanks for info, as usual ;-)

Click to expand...

May I mention diesel fuel has silicon added which will stop o2 sensors working permanently if burned in cylinders of petrol engine.

I don't know if there would be enough in cylinders after process you propose to damage o2 sensors but is it worth the risk?

Why not do a compression test or leak down test? Or is engine burning a lot of oil?

Yes, freeing up rings by flooding cylinders with "things" is an old-school method.
Dangerous nowadays ("cats" and lambda sensors). Should be used as a last chance, before dismantling the engine.

But he knows what he is doing.

Gasoline + engine oil mix will be safest bet (but of course, you should still not burn it/dump it into exhaust).

PS
Same is true for compression tests. You should do "dry" version only on modern cars (not "wet test", adding oil to spot the problem - rings or valves).

Most tests and repair procedures in the mechanical world are like that. Can be dangerous. But it's not the idea itself, it's the execution, application of the method.

Compression test has been done. Oil level is ok too. I wanted to do this procedure because engine was overheated by previous owner. I saw black color from overheating on canshaft and head walls. So I want to clean also piston rings, just to "sleep better" that is clean/cleaner. So I wanted to use kerosene + WD to clean piston rings. Of course I will suck out any kerosene residue from cylinders, then crank it few times without spark plugs inserted. Then change oil+filter, return spark plugs and done.

Guys :-( My happiness is over ;-( Today I checked oil and there were non-metalic particles on dipstick. Almost quarter of dipstick was covered with it. Like old burned oil. So engine is still not clean after that overheating. During 1,5 years there is 3rd oil, once also flushed with flush agent. Oil is also leaking a little bit somewhere between engine and gearbox, but it's like a thin film on oil pan, no drops on ground. But rear crank seal was replaced with new one, oil pan re-sealed. Cannot determine if its gold or red...its just dirty. Oil level also surprised me because 0.5 year ago when I did oil change I gave there to MAX on dipstick, and now is slightly above MIN. But I have no smoke from exhaust.
So, I will not ride the car. As 1st I have to drain it abd analyze whats in the oil. I'll also check variator valve for deposits on it's sifters.
Then I'll make double flush with diesel. Yes, double flush, each time to change filter. Because that debris can damage good parts.
Looks that engine is still cleaning itself...as it heals from that strange ticking on hot idle, its still healing from burned oil.
And if this doesnt help, I'll sell this car with huge money lost :-(
General repair will be very expensive and there was changed at least one exhaust valve as I discovered earlier, so I believe that cylinder head was grinded one time. Not sure if it can be grinded twice. So general repair is not way for me.
Guys, what is the best solution here to flush whole engine properly and withou causing any damage to seals? Is diesel ok for this?

Picture of debris. Fortunately its not metalic after analysis

That's not that bad, small amount of dirt. Don't trip yet.
It was suggested long time ago (year ago?), to drop the oil pan and clean the engine mechanically as much as you can, scrape the deposits. Same with valve cover (head internals). Oil pump inlet (screen) too (it's partially clogged now, probably).
No chemicals will remove it safely (to the engine, seals, exhaust components) and completely.

Recommended order of operations (1 & 2 fairly safe, 3 & 4 not so much):
1. Mechanical cleaning. Plus, spot the oil leak source.
2a. Commercial engine flush (standard one). New oil.
2b. Commercial, special long-term flush, designed to drive in the car.
3. Home-brew mixtures (kerosene or gasoline + oil).
4. Rings freeing procedure.

Or...do nothing, just drive it through the summer and observe what's going on (is it getting better or worst, oil leaks/or consumption).

I scared myself because I thought that all deposits should be catched in oil filter. Mechanical cleaning was done, but that was only in service when they replaced crank bearing, they cleaned oil sump. But nothing more. Another mechanical cleaning was done by other service and then by me - that was head + cam + cover cleaning. I believe that oil leak is only through silicone holding oil pan. I saw new oil pan for 20 Euros, perfect price. And because exhaust must be partialy dismounted to take oil pan away, I can combine it with exhaust replacement, wich os needed too.
One q - can points 1 and 2 somehow affect oil pane silicon "gasket"? I'm afraid a little bit that these flush additives can eat that silicone..?

Grande?
My biggest concern is about possible oil inlet clogging. May I do things like this? I cannot remove oil pan on the street, really. So if I want to clean somehow oil inlet, can I drain the oil, and add there pure gasoline instead of oil 2,6 liters and don't start the engine? Just let it there in oil pan for 24 hours? I think that 2,6 liters are not so high as oil pan seals is (so it shouldn't affect it), but it can dissolve some debris on oil inlet in oil pan ? And after 24 hours just flush gasoline away...
And this procedure I could combine with that piston rings cleaning, when some (or maybe all) kerosene will go down to oil pan...
What do you think?
* Yes before this whole procedure I can add engine flush to current dirty oil, idle 10 minuters and drain it.
** Plus after whole procedure and new oil + filter I can add some long-term cleaning liquid...

If you can't drop the oil pan ("ecology", neighbors snitching on you - worst thing ever that humans do), try inspecting inlet with cheap USB camera (small one, that will fit in the drain plug hole).

Take small steps (just oil change with normal flush + maybe rings procedure). Don't overdo it. Note, that too frequent oil changes are dangerous - engine will wear faster on fresh oil (you need about first 1000-3000 km, to stabilize some properties, then it's peak performance).

Your engine "healed" itself from ticking noise. Give it more time. It is cleaning itself now (you can help, but gently).

Thank you very much Grande ;-) I'll ask colleagues for that camera with light. I ordered new oil, filter, new drain plug. Bought also wd-40 (always useful) and small kerosene bottle. I found bigger syringe and proper hose to add (and then also to remove) kerosene to valves. Ok, so no gasoline to oil pan, only normal flush. I have flush liquid...now I cannot remember if its STP brand... So I'll do it during this weekend

So flush liquid added for 15 minutes. I found that dipstick is clean now, no debris on it ! ;-) Happy. I'll leave old oil with flush liquid in motor for a while, maybe flush liquid will clean oil inlet a little bit. Today I removed spark plugs and moved engine through crank bolt to get pistons to the same level, for adding kerosene. I added the same amount to each valve, and after 24 hours will suck it out to see, how much kerosene ran down via piston rings in each valve

And all spark plugs has good color after year

Something is...not-perfect about those plugs. A little bit too much weird residue or corrosion (at the ends of the body/threads) and some "spatter", black dots on the insulators...
Colors are "OK". But it's not about colour only. Amount of build-up/residue and "texture" counts too.

Or maybe, it's time to swap them (buy a new set). What's the "gap" (how much wear/erosion)? And mileage?
Brand-new NGKs have 1,0 mm. DENSOs 0,8 mm.

Compare to my 2 different sets, older one (unknown mileage, 30k minimum) and more recent (14kkm). But it's a double fuel (petrol/LPG) car...burns a bit different (long story short: cleaner but hotter and more water in the exhaust).

And what means those black dots on insulation? Car was on idle for very long time, I mean 2-3 hours almost daily (you know...Corona, isolation, drinking coffee or beer in car, I needed some heating during nights, thats why it was on idle). But this is over, I'll never do it again. Plugs are NGK, 1 year old and 8000km on it. But mamy times very very short trips. There should be gap 1mm right?
That corosion - maybe because I had manivert out for a week and sometimes was rainy, or wet air...I dont know why all spark plugs are rusty on their endings. But no error codes, starts ok, running ok. Strange!
I checked kerosene levels, and cyls 1, 3 and 4 are empty. In cyl 2 I found still almost half of kerosene, that's cyl where I found also new exhaust valve installed. So looks that there was highest heat during overheating by previous owner and caused damages there.

So, suspicious is cyl 2. Today I checked new kerosene batch inside, but I still sucked 1/4 of remaining kerosene from there. Looks that this is hand in hand with overheating, exhaust valve replacement and ticking on hot.
Looks that piston ing(s) on this 2nd piston were baked to the piston and that causes little piston slap - ticking. After 3 oil changes + flush aditive ticking was gone. And because kerosene doesn't ran down through piston rings so quickly than in other cylinders, those piston rings are still partialy clogged/baked.
Anyway I checked gaps on spark plugs, compleyed everything back, flushed that old oil **** containing flush liquid and kerosene, added new filer + oil.
Overal finding after drive - looks like engine is running "smoothly" or how to say it. Like parts inside are moving easily. Engine sound is good, but its also because I grinded and re-sealed that manivert and 2nd gasket behind cat.
So ok, I'll check oil levels, color, periodicaly and that mentioned small leak.

And that corrosion on spark plugs - it dried over night and today it doesn't look like corrosion but carbon. I gently cleaned it with soft grind pad and now are shiny like new.

Yesyerday I did longer trip, and all looks good. At 100km/h engine was barely audible. Starts are quicker and quieter. Overal it looks like better compression. I'm thinking about long-term aditive to clean piston rings to help 2nd cylinder. This liquid costs 34 Euro, but its worth it. I think this thread can be closed now and I'll post here in case of some new issue, or some improvement.