Having had a small leak in my radiator I thought today’s the day, I already had the parts and stripped the undertray, arch liner access panels, various lower trims, then literally the whole front end, unbelievable amount of dismantling required to remove the rad but got to it. The drier was gas tight and was functioning but maybe not as ice cold as it could be but no real summer issues. The horizontal gas channels where all fine but 60 percent of the Finns where missing and the remainder where not attached, so new drier from Euro car parts 70 quid inc VAT, in stock. S4p was about 110 and genuine only came with 12 month’s warranty and the one I got came with 24 months.

As an aside point I’m hoping it makes good difference to my demisting as it’s always been awful.

Moimo said:

As an aside point I’m hoping it makes good difference to my demisting as it’s always been awful.

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Hi Moimo, have you already inspected the various flaps that should direct the air flow to the windscreen ?
Hope you'll tell us if your demist improved ...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

I will, it’s all back together and i am currently having the gas refilled, and looking forward to the results. It can’t be worse for sure lol.

wow, looks like a pretty major job. Nice work!

out of interest, what's that silver cylinder looking thing in the first picture? i don't recall seeing that poking about my engine bay (yet)

oldmanhouse said:

out of interest, what's that silver cylinder looking thing in the first picture? i don't recall seeing that poking about my engine bay (yet)

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Heat shielding around exhaust?

Congratulations on tackling what looks like quite a "fiddly" and involving job. Our Panda has a "shredded" matrix just like yours and I've been considering doing it. Mrs J couldn't care less if it's done or not?

What cost was involved in getting the system depressurized and repressured ? I've never "messed" with air con components but I've heard worrying stories about the fluid damaging flesh if it gets on you. Is this a big problem or does the small amount not evacuated at draining just evaporate away when the system is opened?

Just a note for anyone reading this and contemplating doing similar work. It is actually illegal to do repair work on a car airconditioning system unles you are trained and F-Gas registered. I'll assume Moimo had the unit professionally de-gassed before starting work. There is apparently a dispensation in the UK for doing top-ups with DIY kits but personally I can't square that with the fact it's still illegal to knowingly allow a system to leak. Apart from the legality there are also safety and environmentl issues with DIY aircon work.


Robert G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

It is actually illegal to do repair work on a car airconditioning system unles you are trained and F-Gas registered.
Robert G8RPI.

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I'm not clear on the legalities here - So is it permissible to work on the component parts as long as the degassing and subsequent regassing are done by a trained qualified operative? Or is it just straight illegal to do work on anything to do with the system unless you're trained and certified?

Thanks
Jock

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

I'm not clear on the legalities here - So is it permissible to work on the component parts as long as the degassing and subsequent regassing are done by a trained qualified operative? Or is it just straight illegal to do work on anything to do with the system unless you're trained and certified?

Thanks
Jock

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As I understand it's working on a system containing gas (any amount) that is illegal. If you get a certified person to de-gas it you can do any work and then get it re-charged and leak checked by a certified person.

Even if the system appears to be empty the only way you could prove you didn't release it would be to get a cerified person to check it anyway.

There is also a practical matter that if the system is to be left open for any length of time the components should be purged with nitrogen and capped to stop corrosion.
Unfortunatly most people do not know the law and there is minimal enforcement.

Robert G8RPI.

Thanks Robert. That pretty much covers it all for me. After some ambiguity in my approach to air con when I first encountered it (in relation to my own vehicles that is) and having seen what a money pit it can be I now, if it stops working, will take it to the lads at AVW and get them to do a system check and recharge if it all checks out OK. If it either then subsequently stops working or needs something expensive done to it I just do without it. The only thing I miss is the way it can speed up demisting in winter but carrying a cloth soon sees to that!

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

The only thing I miss is the way it can speed up demisting in winter but carrying a cloth soon sees to that!

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Haaa, Grand-Pa's demist cloth !! I can't imagine the wool toilet paper holder on Becky's back trunk cover (we also call it the hat board ;-) ...

Sorry, just kidding Jock ;-)

Best regards, Bernie

is the air con condensor in front of the engine radiator or behind it?

how long did it take you to do this job?

my Ac wont take a top up, chances are my condenser is rotten, I might contemplate changing it next year, to see if the system will then take a top up and get it working.

The silver cylinder is a heat shield round the dpf, initially I had no intention of releasing the gas, for anyone who knows the set up I actually stripped it all down and used an angle grinder through the bottom section of the bumper, it is just a thin chin section that fits into the lower bumper and is not structural, I did this to allow the bumper to be removed and then the drier could be swung out the way on the flexi hoses at the side. As for the gas, I can’t empty it, but it was actually cheaper to have someone turn up, empty it, add leak detector, pressurise and refill than any other option. Had the Drier been in good order it would have worked well to swing it all out the way, when the bumper was refitted I welded a plate, drilled, tapped and made the non structural part easy to strip so if it needs to come off again it will be simple.

As for the matter of the condensation, we haven’t had a proper cold morning but the difference is like night and day, it’s like a different car.

I suspect lots of fully functioning climate systems of a similar age are in the same state, and actually there isn’t a lot between the outside world and those Finns, especially with a vehicle that does a few miles at speed.

All I can say is I wouldn’t be surprised if that task had been quoted with all misc parts, I spent 20 quid and did every hose clip for stainless jubilee, then the rad, condenser, coolant, I also changed all the screws for stainless for the under-tray and arch liners etc, add that to labour especially with the four I didn’t want to come out bottom bumper screws and at the garage I guess it could be new car time by the time you look at the cost, well worth doing though and I’m very pleased, I really like this car and full leather, cruise control, climate, sport trim, 17” wheels, 55mpg easily 120bhp 16v and 30 Pounds road fund, book price about 4 quid!!! And 20k ? for something similar new.

If you have a wet window on the inside I reckon this is an option to be investigated, which can be done just by removing the top grill and looking.

The drier sits in front of the radiator and above the inter cooler( if you have a turbo) in front of that if the actual metal work part of the bumper then over the lot is the plastic bumper.

You should be able to see what you asked from these two pic. As for time, I had the lot stripped in about 3.5 hours, less to refit, but about the same to deal with all the broken fasteners etc so in my mind if I ever need to take these bits off in my ownership it would be a pleasure, well maybe.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

I'm not clear on the legalities here - So is it permissible to work on the component parts as long as the degassing and subsequent regassing are done by a trained qualified operative? Or is it just straight illegal to do work on anything to do with the system unless you're trained and certified?

Thanks
Jock

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It’s not illegal to work on your own air con system.

Due to Robert’s claims I contacted the environment agency, the jist is you only need accreditation if you are performing gas recovery tasks with gas recovery equipment.

The cost of the equipment to work on (gas and degas) your own aircon systems are high so these tasks are always best left to someone with the right kit, but if the gas has all leaked out or you’ve had it de gassed then you can pull things a part to your hearts content.

When done take it and get the gas filled again and carry on with your day safe in the knowledge that the air con police won’t be knocking on your door.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

What cost was involved in getting the system depressurized and repressured ? I've never "messed" with air con components but I've heard worrying stories about the fluid damaging flesh if it gets on you. Is this a big problem or does the small amount not evacuated at draining just evaporate away when the system is opened?

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The ‘fluid’ in the system is a fluid as it’s under pressure, if you release it, like a gas cigarette lighter the fluid rapidly expands and in doing so (much like the way it works in the aircon system) is will cause nasty freeze burns especially if it makes contact with your skin while it’s still a liquid.

Other dangers to be aware of are inhalation, it’s not poisonous, but it is heavy, and will displace the air.
So absolutely don’t lay under a car with a bad leak in the aircon system or work in a pit on anything that might disrupt the aircon pipes or cause a leak as it will fill the pit with gas in the same way it would fill if you pour water in. Also if you’re laying under the car, it will push all the air out of the way and you can literally suffocate without realising it’s happening as the gas has no smell.

If the system is already drained because of other leaks then the gas inside will be at the same pressure as the air outside, so if you open the pipes the gas will cause no damage as it won’t expand, and there is so little gas it won’t be enough to suffocate but I would still always say don’t lay or work under the car for a while after opening the system and do it in a well ventilated area so the gas gets vented away.

Thanks Andy. I found that very interesting and informative. I've been fortunate never to have so far needed to do any more than have a system repressurized but it's nice to know how I stand if I'm ever in the position of needing to dismantle anything. The Panda's matrix is in very poor condition with a lot of it's fins missing but it still seems to work and isn't leaking. As the car is our local runabout I'll probably do nothing about it even if it stops working?

Moimo said:

The drier sits in front of the radiator and above the inter cooler( if you have a turbo) .

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thanks, yes I do have a turbo and I would quite like to replace the rubber hoses to the IC so they will be accessible at the same time if I was to replace the condenser.
Did you replace any of the pipes O Rings [green ones]?

The hoses will be accessible, I changed all the clips for jubilee but that’s just because I don’t have hose clamp pliers, and there are some tools I don’t want to own lol. The connection to the drier had two washers, one on each pipe, they where not o rings but the metal compressible style washer with a rubber/media insert, they didn’t look deformed, compressed etc so I left them in situ and reused them. I felt that as only 50 percent of the joint was disassembled and it was being pressure tested with the bumpers etc off I was happy to reuse the originals.

So @AndyRKett

Why have you taken my post out of context?
I said "As I understand it's working on a system containing gas (any amount) that is illegal. If you get a certified person to de-gas it you can do any work and then get it re-charged and leak checked by a certified person."

That is not "it's illegal to work on the aircon sytem". The problem is that it IS illegal to release F gases to the atmosphere. There is little work you can do on the "plumbing" of a aircon system without releasing gas. The UK has an odd exemption that allows the use of diy "top-up" kits but it's hard to see how this complies with the primary legislation.

As you imply the only practical solution is to use a professonal to empty and recharge the sytem.

Robert G8RPI.

To be fair going by the specific wording the fgas regs only applies to the recovery of gas from cases used it cars rather then the handling of them unlike other area's such as fixed Aircon units
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/qualifications-required-to-work-on-equipment-containing-f-gas

g8rpi said:

So @AndyRKett

Why have you taken my post out of context?
I said "As I understand it's working on a system containing gas (any amount) that is illegal. If you get a certified person to de-gas it you can do any work and then get it re-charged and leak checked by a certified person."

That is not "it's illegal to work on the aircon sytem". The problem is that it IS illegal to release F gases to the atmosphere. There is little work you can do on the "plumbing" of a aircon system without releasing gas. The UK has an odd exemption that allows the use of diy "top-up" kits but it's hard to see how this complies with the primary legislation.

As you imply the only practical solution is to use a professonal to empty and recharge the sytem.

Robert G8RPI.

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