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Old 13-05-2019   #1
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1.2 8v sump plug leak

Ive had the car about 3 months now and I’ve noticed the sump plug is leaking,

I changed the oil about 3 months ago and put a new sump plug on, but I mustn’t of done it right, before fitting I compared the old one with the new one and there both the same, But whats puzzled me is, when screwing the plug in there doesn’t seem to be any resistance like it was tightening, it just seemed like it was going to fall inside the sump, So what I did was just screwed in so the plug was flush with the sump if that makes sense. Thing is it’s defo leaking from the plug so I couldn’t have done it right, I’ve read online these plugs self seal. But how far do you screw the plugs in?
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Last edited by Liam1804; 13-05-2019 at 22:09.
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Old 13-05-2019   #2
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Re: 1.2 8v sump plug leak

It should tighten. That is correct. Try turning it another turn or two. You don't want it falling inside the sump though, as you say, it can be a real pain to get the sump off, although I doubt it would do much harm. (Don't quote me on that)

Hth, Simon
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Old 14-05-2019   #3
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Re: 1.2 8v sump plug leak

Sounds like same problem
https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/447666-help-sump-plug-now-inside-sump.html

I brought a servicing kit off eBay that came with a new plug, maybe it was the wrong size, The old one was a nightmare to get off though, I had to use a bar to loosen it,

This is a stupid question but is there suppose to be some sort of threadlock on the plugs? Reason I ask, the new one was a BGA plug that didn’t have any locking Compound on?
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Last edited by Liam1804; 14-05-2019 at 06:19.
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Old 14-05-2019   #4
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Re: 1.2 8v sump plug leak

Quote Originally Posted by Liam1804 View Post
Ive had the car about 3 months now and I’ve noticed the sump plug is leaking,

I changed the oil about 3 months ago and put a new sump plug on, but I mustn’t of done it right, before fitting I compared the old one with the new one and there both the same, But whats puzzled me is, when screwing the plug in there doesn’t seem to be any resistance like it was tightening, it just seemed like it was going to fall inside the sump, So what I did was just screwed in so the plug was flush with the sump if that makes sense. Thing is it’s defo leaking from the plug so I couldn’t have done it right, I’ve read online these plugs self seal. But how far do you screw the plugs in?
Back many years ago, when we were on our first Panda (750cc Panda), although there was nothing really wrong except it was a bit rusty and I was worried the hex was starting to round a bit, I bought a, very cheap, new sump plug from an auto accessory shop. It did exactly as you describe, screwed in with no sign of tightening! It cost peanuts so I just chucked it and screwed the old one back in - which continued to give good service for more than 12 years!

The way these plugs tighten is that the plug is actually a tapered shape (I think it's the plug and not the hole? - but yes, I'm sure it's the plug) So the further you screw the plug into the hole the tighter it gets as the taper uses up the slack. I think the plug I bought - and probably yours - were/are straight sided, like a normal bolt, so have no hope of tightening. Probably buying one from the local main dealer or a trusted supplier (my local factor are good as are shop4parts to mention just 2) will ensure you get a "good" one. How far do you screw it in? 'till it's reasonably tight and I find this leaves the end of the plug just proud of the face of the threaded hole in the sump. I do find though that it differs on each vehicle. At present our Panda's is just proud but the Punto's identical setup has two or maybe three threads showing. I'm very keen on using a torque wrench on alloy sumps but this is steel and tapered so your chances of stripping it are just about zero.

We've had a Panda 750, Panda 1000, Panda Parade and our present Panda Dynamic Eco. My older boy has a Punto 1.4 8 valve. All have/had this type of sump plug and I've serviced them all. If the plugs are in reasonably serviceable condition they self seal due to the tapered nature of the plug. You don't need to tighten them excessively, just "Nice 'n tight". I don't use thread locker or sealant of any type and never had a plug loosen off or leak. If it worries you though there's no reason why you shouldn't use a little medium (blue) thread locker for peace of mind. Generally I would advise against plumbers thread tape (PTFE is it?) as little bits tend to get loose inside the sump and might get sucked into the strainer. I do find that if you tighten them very "enthusiastically", the next time you come to undo it it is almost as if it's locked itself in place. I have read on this forum a number of posts from people who have had trouble loosening them. I think what is happening is that, because the plug is tapered, if you substantially over tighten it, during tightening the oil on the tread makes tightening easy due to the lubricating film but the wedging action of the taper forces the oil out of the threads. Then it spend maybe a year in this "tight threaded" condition where most of the oil in the threads is forced out so now the actual thread forms themselves are as good as "dry". Now, at service time, you are undoing a thread which was well oiled when tightened but now dry and "grippy" as you try to slacken it.

All the best. Do let us all know if you've got - what I suspect to be - a straight sided plug. It would be interesting to hear from anyone else who has heard of this or actually found themselves with this problem.

Regards
Jock
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Last edited by Pugglt Auld Jock; 14-05-2019 at 23:06.
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Old 15-05-2019   #5
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Re: 1.2 8v sump plug leak

Got a new plug coming from Shop4Parts, I’ll try this one and post back, If this fails I think I’ll end up putting some sealant or Loctite on the threads saves changing the sump,
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Old 21-05-2019   #6
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Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Back many years ago, when we were on our first Panda (750cc Panda), although there was nothing really wrong except it was a bit rusty and I was worried the hex was starting to round a bit, I bought a, very cheap, new sump plug from an auto accessory shop. It did exactly as you describe, screwed in with no sign of tightening! It cost peanuts so I just chucked it and screwed the old one back in - which continued to give good service for more than 12 years!

The way these plugs tighten is that the plug is actually a tapered shape (I think it's the plug and not the hole? - but yes, I'm sure it's the plug) So the further you screw the plug into the hole the tighter it gets as the taper uses up the slack. I think the plug I bought - and probably yours - were/are straight sided, like a normal bolt, so have no hope of tightening. Probably buying one from the local main dealer or a trusted supplier (my local factor are good as are shop4parts to mention just 2) will ensure you get a "good" one. How far do you screw it in? 'till it's reasonably tight and I find this leaves the end of the plug just proud of the face of the threaded hole in the sump. I do find though that it differs on each vehicle. At present our Panda's is just proud but the Punto's identical setup has two or maybe three threads showing. I'm very keen on using a torque wrench on alloy sumps but this is steel and tapered so your chances of stripping it are just about zero.

We've had a Panda 750, Panda 1000, Panda Parade and our present Panda Dynamic Eco. My older boy has a Punto 1.4 8 valve. All have/had this type of sump plug and I've serviced them all. If the plugs are in reasonably serviceable condition they self seal due to the tapered nature of the plug. You don't need to tighten them excessively, just "Nice 'n tight". I don't use thread locker or sealant of any type and never had a plug loosen off or leak. If it worries you though there's no reason why you shouldn't use a little medium (blue) thread locker for peace of mind. Generally I would advise against plumbers thread tape (PTFE is it?) as little bits tend to get loose inside the sump and might get sucked into the strainer. I do find that if you tighten them very "enthusiastically", the next time you come to undo it it is almost as if it's locked itself in place. I have read on this forum a number of posts from people who have had trouble loosening them. I think what is happening is that, because the plug is tapered, if you substantially over tighten it, during tightening the oil on the tread makes tightening easy due to the lubricating film but the wedging action of the taper forces the oil out of the threads. Then it spend maybe a year in this "tight threaded" condition where most of the oil in the threads is forced out so now the actual thread forms themselves are as good as "dry". Now, at service time, you are undoing a thread which was well oiled when tightened but now dry and "grippy" as you try to slacken it.

All the best. Do let us all know if you've got - what I suspect to be - a straight sided plug. It would be interesting to hear from anyone else who has heard of this or actually found themselves with this problem.

Regards
Jock

Decided to tackle this leak today, To start off I thought I would see if the plug was lose and tried turning it with my finger, Surprisingly I felt it tighten up, I thought this is strange because when I done a oil change it felt like it was going to drop into the sump,

I done another oil change anyway today and when I was tightening the plug the same thing happened again, it wouldn’t tighten, So I tightened it by hand first and I noticed it getting tighter, The penny dropped. Don’t use a 1/2” ratchet to tighten the plug, All sorted now,
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Old 21-05-2019   #7
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Re: 1.2 8v sump plug leak

Quote Originally Posted by Liam1804 View Post
Decided to tackle this leak today, To start off I thought I would see if the plug was lose and tried turning it with my finger, Surprisingly I felt it tighten up, I thought this is strange because when I done a oil change it felt like it was going to drop into the sump,

I done another oil change anyway today and when I was tightening the plug the same thing happened again, it wouldn’t tighten, So I tightened it by hand first and I noticed it getting tighter, The penny dropped. Don’t use a 1/2” ratchet to tighten the plug, All sorted now,
Was the ratcheting on the return pull I've had that happen with loose fitting bolts you just end up undoing them rather then the ratchet clicking
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Old 21-05-2019   #8
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Re: 1.2 8v sump plug leak

Problem I need to sort now is the rear wiper come on when you start the car and does about 10 sweeps then stops but not in the park position, This is intermittent, but I think this is a problem with the actual motor,
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Old 21-05-2019   #9
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Quote Originally Posted by Liam1804 View Post
Decided to tackle this leak today, So I tightened it by hand first and I noticed it getting tighter, The penny dropped. Don’t use a 1/2” ratchet to tighten the plug, All sorted now,

You lost me there.. :/
Was the plug not actually turning?

If not turning.. how did you suspect it would fall into the sump??
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Old 21-05-2019   #10
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Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
You lost me there.. :/
Was the plug not actually turning?

If not turning.. how did you suspect it would fall into the sump??
When I first changed the oil the brand new sump plug wasn’t getting tight, (I was using a 1/2” ratchet with hex attachment) it was going all the way into the sump threads, So I decided to just screw it in so it was just flush with the sump, I then noticed oil drips, I thought I had the wrong plug for the sump because it wasn’t tightening,

Today Just out of curiosity I managed to turn the plug with my finger and noticed it was getting tighter. So my problem was using a 1/2”ratchet gave to much leverage and felt like it wasn’t tightening, But tightening it up by hand first then just a nip with a 3/8 ratchet was much better and you could feel the resistance
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Old 21-05-2019   #11
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Quote Originally Posted by Liam1804 View Post
When I first changed the oil the brand new sump plug wasn’t getting tight, (I was using a 1/2” ratchet with hex attachment) it was going all the way into the sump threads, So I decided to just screw it in so it was just flush with the sump, I then noticed oil drips, I thought I had the wrong plug for the sump because it wasn’t tightening,

Today Just out of curiosity I managed to turn the plug with my finger and noticed it was getting tighter. So my problem was using a 1/2”ratchet gave to much leverage and felt like it wasn’t tightening, But tightening it up by hand first then just a nip with a 3/8 ratchet was much better and you could feel the resistance
Ok. So you have got a damaged

FEMALE THREAD IN THE SUMP PAN..

From your initial posts.. it sounds as if it had been.. 'bonded' into place.

That may be a sensible option in the mid.term

As it staying in place is a must !

As the years go by.. a rusted out sump may well occur.. its new replacement will have
A new threaded insert .

Charlie
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Old 21-05-2019   #12
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Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
Ok. So you have got a damaged

FEMALE THREAD IN THE SUMP PAN..

From your initial posts.. it sounds as if it had been.. 'bonded' into place.

That may be a sensible option in the mid.term

As it staying in place is a must !

As the years go by.. a rusted out sump may well occur.. its new replacement will have
A new threaded insert .

Charlie

Sort of, When I brought the car I had to use a breaker bar to undo the plug, I’ve never known a sump plug be so tight, so I think there may of been some locking compound on, but my problem was because I was using a 1/2” ratchet to tighten the plug, using a 1/2” ratchet was technically over tightening the plug but I couldn’t feel any resistance so I thought it was either the wrong plug or a damaged sump , It was only today when I hand tightened the plug then used a 3/8 ratchet I felt the resistance, I basically went over kill by using a 1/2 ratchet,
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Last edited by Liam1804; 21-05-2019 at 21:22.
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Old 21-05-2019   #13
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Re: 1.2 8v sump plug leak

Quote Originally Posted by Liam1804 View Post
When I first changed the oil the brand new sump plug wasn’t getting tight, (I was using a 1/2” ratchet with hex attachment) it was going all the way into the sump threads, So I decided to just screw it in so it was just flush with the sump, I then noticed oil drips, I thought I had the wrong plug for the sump because it wasn’t tightening,

Today Just out of curiosity I managed to turn the plug with my finger and noticed it was getting tighter. So my problem was using a 1/2”ratchet gave to much leverage and felt like it wasn’t tightening, But tightening it up by hand first then just a nip with a 3/8 ratchet was much better and you could feel the resistance
This doesn't sound right to me (or Charlie I notice). I would be keeping an eagle eye on this for quite some time. I tighten both our Panda and Punto sump plugs with my 1/2" "T" bar and they go up really "nice 'n tight". I would judge about the sort of tightness I would be doing a caliper retaining nut up to. I think, from what you are describing, there is a fair risk this may vibrate loose over time.

I'm definitely one of life's worriers so if it were me I would be seeking a second opinion on this perhaps from a knowledgeable experienced friend who does his own servicing or an experienced Forum member (if there is one near where you live - which is?) perhaps a local small garage - almost any small garage will have serviced a Fiat with this type of plug so will know what it should feel like and it's a very quick thing to check so cost should be minimal. I'm really a bit concerned you have a potentially engine destroying problem here (if the plug comes unscrewed) and I wouldn't be ignoring it if it were mine.

Good luck
Jock
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Old 21-05-2019   #14
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Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
This doesn't sound right to me (or Charlie I notice). I would be keeping an eagle eye on this for quite some time. I tighten both our Panda and Punto sump plugs with my 1/2" "T" bar and they go up really "nice 'n tight". I would judge about the sort of tightness I would be doing a caliper retaining nut up to. I think, from what you are describing, there is a fair risk this may vibrate loose over time.

I'm definitely one of life's worriers so if it were me I would be seeking a second opinion on this perhaps from a knowledgeable experienced friend who does his own servicing or an experienced Forum member (if there is one near where you live - which is?) perhaps a local small garage - almost any small garage will have serviced a Fiat with this type of plug so will know what it should feel like and it's a very quick thing to check so cost should be minimal. I'm really a bit concerned you have a potentially engine destroying problem here (if the plug comes unscrewed) and I wouldn't be ignoring it if it were mine.

Good luck
Jock
I’ll defo keep an eye on it, What I was thinking about doing and I may still do this if it leaks again is, get the same sort of plug M22x1.5 but with a bolt type head and washer so it makes a seal at the bottom of the sump, if that makes sense something like this https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F283448313739
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Old 21-05-2019   #15
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Re: 1.2 8v sump plug leak

TBH if it was my car Id change it tommorrow. To much of an expensive risk..cost of a bolt v cost of an engine. Peace of minds priceless..
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