Hope this little lot clears this up.....

If it has DPF cluster informs you of oil filter change (or 2 years) or without DPF 2 years.Remember if the oil filter is changer the ECU must be informed of this change by using examiner.

As a guideline if degredation index is 25% or less (remember counter counts down) at time of service you change the oil anyway (which I reckon 99% of cars will be except taxis,maybe delivery drivers etc).

Most diesels will have this soon I reckon with euro 5 emission laws etc.


Quote by D4anny8oy....
There's no actual sensor in the sump for DPF. It's all based around how many times the particulate filter in the exhaust has been purged by the injection system carrying out a regeneration procedure.
Over time the excess fuel collects in the engine oil and 'degrades' it, hence why there's a light to say you need an oil change (before the oil thins out and risks damage).

T14086 said:

Remember if the oil filter is changer the ECU must be informed of this change by using examiner.

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T, Whats the worst that can happen if a new oil filter is fitted * between service intervals* and the ECU in not informed?

Because it seems to me that the ECU would only need to be informed by the examiner at the `correct` interval,
In other words, there is no feedback between the filter and ECU so it could actually be changed *between* the correct service interval and the ECU and examiner would be non the wiser, the only benefit being to the engine. Getting a new filter and oil..........

oilrag said:

T, Whats the worst that can happen if a new oil filter is fitted * between service intervals* and the ECU in not informed?

Because it seems to me that the ECU would only need to be informed by the examiner at the `correct` interval,
In other words, there is no feedback between the filter and ECU so it could actually be changed *between* the correct service interval and the ECU and examiner would be non the wiser, the only benefit being to the engine. Getting a new filter and oil..........

Click to expand...

But the ECU won't know the oil is new.

It's possible that your driving style or the conditions have meant that the particulate filter has needed to be purged more often. The ECU counts these "regenerations" and calculates approx. how many miles are left til the oil requires changing.

Lets say you've changed the oil at 10,000 miles because you wanted to. The oil degradation could be that the ECU wants it changed at 11,000 miles, so when you reach that figure the oil light comes on, warning message on dash, etc until you pay the dealer to reset the system- which they would've done as part of the normal service anyway.

It's not a money-making con by Fiat or the dealer's- it's EU emissions legislation forcing manufacturers to fit systems like DPF.

....and you have wasted money on oil & filter that it doesn't need....take the wife out for a Curry insteard.:yum:

rich how long have you had your car for now? i got my service at the start of september, ive done 7500 miles so far. cant you wait until your year is up for the service?

T14086 said:

....and you have wasted money on oil & filter that it doesn't need.

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I get it back on the labour charges by doing the services myself.:devil:

Even if an owner does all the sheduled services themself ( out of warranty) it seems that all the oil monitoring and examiner intervention does, is to put on the service light at a particular time. At a time the monitoring system tells it to and the examiner resets this to `zero` at the time the new filter is fitted.
( and puts the service light out )
This surely means that an owner could ignore the service light, do the service, including new oil and filter themselves and do an oil and filter change at the halfway mark from the savings on labour charges?

I suggest done like this the oil doesnt need monitoring as its always changed at either 6 months or half the recommended mileage.
The engine can only benefit from oil and filter changes at half the normal interval, at least the service manager of a Fiat dealer I know tells me so.

Perhaps in time, the `Examiner` will be able to lock down the bonnet, but there will always be a way

Donnie Darko said:

rich how long have you had your car for now? i got my service at the start of september, ive done 7500 miles so far. cant you wait until your year is up for the service?

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Ive had it nearly 8 months. I suppose i could but ive been told that it really should have been changed after 1k miles, dont know how true this is. Now i cant help but think it could do with it, plus im thinking it might make the car run a bit smoother.

I went to my dealer and they tried to sell me 10/40, they said thats what i needed. When i told them the book said 5/30 they said that they didnt sell it and i would have to go elsewhere, lovely.

Rich

oilrag said:

I get it back on the labour charges by doing the services myself.:devil:

Even if an owner does all the sheduled services themself ( out of warranty) it seems that all the oil monitoring and examiner intervention does, is to put on the service light at a particular time. At a time the monitoring system tells it to and the examiner resets this to `zero` at the time the new filter is fitted.
( and puts the service light out )
This surely means that an owner could ignore the service light, do the service, including new oil and filter themselves and do an oil and filter change at the halfway mark from the savings on labour charges?

I suggest done like this the oil doesnt need monitoring as its always changed at either 6 months or half the recommended mileage.
The engine can only benefit from oil and filter changes at half the normal interval, at least the service manager of a Fiat dealer I know tells me so.

Perhaps in time, the `Examiner` will be able to lock down the bonnet, but there will always be a way

Click to expand...

D4nny8oy's post earlier kinda sums it up

Why are you guys so worried about changing your oil, If Fiat say its ok to go 18k on synth` 5/40 why the concern? Ok, you can say it gives you piece of mind but to me its the placebo effect, you think its doing some good therefore it must be doing good! Personally I think a 18k service interval is great. The whole point of extending service intervals is to cut down on costs, both for the individual buyer and to make the cars more appealing to fleet buyers. If your dropping the oil every 6k you are defeating the object. Imagine if you were running a fleet of 1000 GPs on lease or hire as a buisness, assuming it costs £50 inc per car would you still want to pay £50,000 total for oil changes every 6k despite the makers saying it wasnt needed?? Thats £100,000 gone before they hit 18k and its wiped out your profit.

Pre 1980 when we were all running our normally aspirated Cortinas Capris and Mk11 Escorts on 15/40 "Dinosaur-juice" we HAD to change our oil at 6K because after that it was useless but because of the developments in engine and oil technology these days it lasts much longer and is still effective at 3 times that mileage. Have a bit of faith. I can rack up 6k in 3 months in my line of work and I would soon get pi**ed off I had to take a day off and pay for 4 oil changes every year.

As T says.....save your money for more important things like beer and curry.

I racked up 6k in 4 months Sledge and the main reason I want to do a halfway oilchange is because if / when the premature engine wear happens due to the extended service intervals it will be my pocket that gets lightened with a big bill if it happens and I am out of warranty.
Fleet owners dont keep the cars that long so the comparison is not relative to a private user.

I can see no problem dropping my oil at 9k miles for some fresh stuff and having my usual 1st service (free) at the dealers. In spite of all the monitoring and gadgetry.

It wont harm anything and on balance could benefit me, rather than benefitting the dealer if damage occurs due to long service intervals.

Personal choice I just wondered what the consensus was on the Forum.

Totally agree with you.
I think service intervals are too long between oil changes.....and I don't care how advanced the oil is.
I think that manufacturers make the service intervals so long in order that they make their models more appealing and increase sales.
In Los Angeles, USA......try buying a new Toyota, Honda or Volkswagen and tell them that you'll be back in 18,000 miles for an oil change....they'll laugh in your face.....and isn't it really f******g weird that Toyota oil changes in los angeles are at 6,000 and not 18,000 like in europe.....??!!
Car engines definitely last longer there 'cause part of the culture is to change the oil every 6,000 miles....sad that people in europe have such an aversion to doing what is a very simple and yet such an important job.

Exactly, a very good comparison, my Parents used to live in America and every 4-5k at least you pop down to a jiffy lube kinda place and have the oil changed, its no wonder car engines last longer over there, and as has been said, the service intervals for comparative cars here and there are shorter in the states, it's laziness and cheapness that stops people doing it here, oil may have come on in the past few years, but its still a refined natural product and therefore is not infallible. I say, when in doubt, do it, its 40 quid and when you are out of warranty and the engine still runs sweet as a nut, it will be worth it. We had an old 318i with over 205k on it, and still have a 1988 750il with 214k on it and because of regular oil changes they are like new, enough proof for me to change it in my Fiat every 6k.

Could there also be a link to the air pollution laws in the 'States too? Contaminated oil will contribute to air pollution with the amount of cars and small amount of oil burned by each engine. I dont believe the oil hype, its as misleading as Internet speeds claimed by various providers, how many people get the 20meg they pay for, off topic I know but its hype all the same... (hypergrade?) Lmao!

I think you've got a very good point.
It amazes me how people freely spend lots of money buying accessories for cars, upgrading them.......spend HOURS complaining how this and that doesn't work on the car, to whom ever will listen and then the MOMENT an oil change comes up suddenly on the gas guage scale of emotional mood swings....
Oh it's too expensive, Oh it's too much effort, Oh Halfords don't have quite the right type of oil and so I've got to drive to a Fiat dealership......Oh the manufacturers state 18,000.........
I say a complete lack of mechanical sympathy, cheap, self-destructive and friggin lazy.............lol

Contaminated(used)oil gets reused & packaged up as budget oil.

" used oil can be re-refined into base stock for lubricating oil.If you recycle just two gallons of used oil it can generate enough electricity to run the average household for almost 24 hours"

However only 55-60% of used oil is recycled,the rest is dumped....by us into drains etc.

Superboy said:

I think service intervals are too long between oil changes.....and I don't care how advanced the oil is.

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Agree, its cheap insurance for anyone wanting to keep the car long term IMHO.
I have always changed the oil and filter at half the recommended interval on my cars.
On a Perkins Prima, treated like this, it was noticably quieter after about 70,000 miles than others that were serviced according to, what at the time, was a long service interval for a diesel.
Doing all my own servicing, it was the supplying garage that commented on the engines quietness ( read less wear than normal) when I took it back for an MOT.

At 130,000 that engine ran like new and used no oil.

Guys, In the lasy 20 years I have taken 6 cars round the clock, the 7th is on over 80k right now, the record was 130ishK in a diesel vectra. None of these cars had any "extra" oil changes and none suffered any significant premature engine wear/failure apart from a zetec modeo which had the wrong oil in it 4 or 5 times. 20-30 years ago I would have said yeah, change the oil at 6k but today its different. I have no reason to to believe that the Fiat engine is going to behave any differently from any other modern engine.

sledge said:

. I have no reason to to believe that the Fiat engine is going to behave any differently from any other modern engine.

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It would be interesting to look at a certain engines run on long service intervals or not. ( With awareness of all the other parameters that make this so difficult)
Like The 1.3 Multijet which was on a 12,000 service interval in 2005 ( I have one)
using 5w40.

It seems Vauxhall have the same engine, on a higher mileage change interval, but using 5w30 long life oil.
I wondered whether fleet considerations dictated that over ( arguable) seemingly, ultimate long engine life?
Or whether the Fiat version of the 1.3 Mulijet is now specified 5w30 long service oil, without mechanical changes, bearing clearances, ring packs etc?

Surely it has to compete with Vauxhall selling cars with the same engine?
Or does it?
is the Fiat version still on 12,000 changes and 5w40, in the interest of engine life? This possibly having priority over any fleet sales.
Engineering first, in other words.

Any thoughts T?

Yeah keep changing your oil between services as it increases fiats profits & I can hopefully soon demand a huge wage

Might be worth noting the 1.9 diesel vauxhall/saab engined versions had narrow oilways that blocked & seized engines but fiats versions are modified

i just checked the service manual as got my service in sept and it say's for cars that need the 'low mileage annual service' (under 9000 miles) the engine oil and oil filter should be changed when the warning light comes on, or every 2 years! this is for diesel engines with DPF. does the 1.9 have DPF??