Well as an example the Mk1 Subaru Legacy RS (the homologation version) comes with manual winders as they're lighter. Perhaps the weight savings aren't that great but I know a few other cars do it.
General I Still want one.
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Well as an example the Mk1 Subaru Legacy RS (the homologation version) comes with manual winders as they're lighter. Perhaps the weight savings aren't that great but I know a few other cars do it.
jimbro1000
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There certainly used to be a weight difference, an electric setup was commonly twice the weight of a manual equivalent, things change though.
Most of the reason for having manual setup for a homologation edition is because otherwise you'd be stuck with the electric setup but for a manual setup where you either swap parts for lighter, flimsier equivalents or just dispose of them altogether it is more complex, it can be about saving on cost as much as anything still, not to the manufacturer but definitely for the buyer.
I seem to remember that the Mk1 Legacy was a rally machine before the benefits of using the Impreza platform were realised (and how long ago was that?)
Most of the reason for having manual setup for a homologation edition is because otherwise you'd be stuck with the electric setup but for a manual setup where you either swap parts for lighter, flimsier equivalents or just dispose of them altogether it is more complex, it can be about saving on cost as much as anything still, not to the manufacturer but definitely for the buyer.
I seem to remember that the Mk1 Legacy was a rally machine before the benefits of using the Impreza platform were realised (and how long ago was that?)
Well the Mk1 Legacy platform gave birth to the Impreza, just with a shorter wheelbase
Struts, hubs, brakes, suspension arms, steering rack and loads of other things are more or less interchangeable between the Mk1 Legacy and the Impreza
OP
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What everyones opinions on the Mini Cooper S, and can it ben compared to the A500?
jimbro1000
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The Cooper S is more around the A500SS territory in terms of performance, is reputed to have sweeter handling - somewhere between the A500 and the Clio Sport in terms of feel.
Beyond that - it doesn't have too much space inside, has a very small boot (smaller than the A500) and is pretty ubiquitous on the roads thanks to a generation of fashion victims (and estate agents) buying the cars.
The second generation is turbocharged, the first generation is supercharged.
Beyond that I really can't say as I've never driven one and never really wanted to. I wasn't a big fan of the car first time around and BMW's cynical rehash really doesn't appeal to me (don't ask me why the 500 does though).
Beyond that - it doesn't have too much space inside, has a very small boot (smaller than the A500) and is pretty ubiquitous on the roads thanks to a generation of fashion victims (and estate agents) buying the cars.
The second generation is turbocharged, the first generation is supercharged.
Beyond that I really can't say as I've never driven one and never really wanted to. I wasn't a big fan of the car first time around and BMW's cynical rehash really doesn't appeal to me (don't ask me why the 500 does though).
By all accounts the Mini handles a lot better than the A500 and goes well too. But like you say the looks just aren't right. The 500 manages to strike a good balance between being retro but not too retro... the Mini is just a bit OTT if you ask me.
How many miles have you done in both to compare? It's easy to enough to read all the reviews and agree, but I've found that 90% of the time, i completely disagree with them. I've done 2500 to 3000 in a Mini when learning to drive, and 23,000 miles in the A500. The Mini handles better, but in all fairness, it's not that much better than the A500. Remember how EVO praise the Panda HP for it's handling ability, the A500 is based on the Panda, but with bigger wheels, better suspension and with electronic aids, it's not far handling wise from it's rivals as you may expect
How many miles have you done in both to compare? It's easy to enough to read all the reviews and agree, but I've found that 90% of the time, i completely disagree with them. I've done 2500 to 3000 in a Mini when learning to drive, and 23,000 miles in the A500. The Mini handles better, but in all fairness, it's not that much better than the A500. Remember how EVO praise the Panda HP for it's handling ability, the A500 is based on the Panda, but with bigger wheels, better suspension and with electronic aids, it's not far handling wise from it's rivals as you may expect
Please don't talk crap.
Bigger wheels do NOT make a car handle better.
The Mini is a better drivers car in every single way over the A500SS. Whether you want to be seen in a Mini is another story. I wouldn't want to be seen in one.
No Maxi, but they give better grip, which helps handling. Again i ask, how many miles have you driven in both to justify your statement?
I too wouldn't be seen in one, way too common and old hat
No Maxi, but they give better grip, which helps handling. Again i ask, how many miles have you driven in both to justify your statement?
I too wouldn't be seen in one, way too common and old hat
You don't know what you're talking about. You only need to look at the teensy weensy 13" wheels on an F1 car to know that size isn't everything.
I don't need to have driven both cars to read in the motoring press that the Mini defacates on the A500 in terms of handling and go.
Congratulations. Can someone get a cookie for this guy so we can talk facts?Ok, but having driven both, i'm very happy with my choice
Congratulations. Can someone get a cookie for this guy so we can talk facts?
"I'm happy with my choice" is a fact!
Oh and the A500 does pretty well here too
Please stop posting videos where a A500 does well against some car as if this actually proves objectively that it's as good as a Mini or a Clio."I'm happy with my choice" is a fact!
Oh and the A500 does pretty well here too
YouTube - spa francorchamps rotary day 2009 mini et fiat 500 abarth
The cooper s is an awesome piece of kit, shame its not very nice to look at.
In terms of performance it would eat the A500 for breakfast.
In terms of performance it would eat the A500 for breakfast.
I wouldn't say that mate. 0-60 is around the same as the Esseesse and against a tuned Abarth it would lose gracefully
Trust me I've done it!!
0-60 means nothing, if it was a drag race it would.
But in a proper race the cooper would win.
But in a proper race the cooper would win.
Further to this, please stop posting videos where the car I claim is better catches the A500 hand over fist and overtakes the A500. If the A500 were anywhere near the Mini then then Mini wouldn't have been able to overtake it. The Mini got a MUCH better run through Eau Rouge and reeled the A500 in like nobody's business. Again, I wouldn't be seen in a Mini, but it's a much better performance car than the A500.
Now we're going into tuning. What if the Mini is tuned? What if the Abarth owner retaliates with further tuning? Will it end in a "My dad could SOOOOOO beat your dad up" match?
The fact of the matter is that the Mini is a well regarded hot hatch with a good chassis and the Abarth is a warm hatch with hunble origins which show up.
TBH i couldn't care less. The "My car has a bigger ***** than yours" argument may appeal to the childish people here, those who consider performance the number 1 priority. But for me, there are 1000 reasons why i would chose the A500 over the mini (as would you Maxi) performance is much lower on my priority list than you seem to think it is. On saying that though, you shouldn't really underestimate the performance, or criticize it until you've driven one (or both) As Sikersh says, that's what other people do on the open road and boy are they surprised!
A few quotes from EVO:
"the Abarth giving the Mini a very hard time around one sequence in particular – a steep uphill hairpin left that tightens at the exit before curving straight into a 90 right"
"The 500 – smaller, lighter, grippier, fierier – is all over the back of the Cooper S. It squirms down into second, digs in eagerly, keeps tight control of its nose and squirts up to the next bend, the tight left where photographer Kenny P is standing, Canon poised. The Mini’s driver and I swap seats and go again. Yep, right here the Cooper S feels bulkier, more sluggish, like it’s been caught with its trousers down"
"Not that 1035kg is excessive. It’s 170kg less than the Mini and that hands the Abarth a superior power-to-weight ratio. I’m amazed when I first work that out, but then the 500 does feel genuinely quick"
"from the bottom of Zig Zag to the top and beyond, where the B3081 opens out into a series of temptingly fast, well-sighted sweepers, the SS keeps pace with the hard-charging S. The Mini’s only way to escape the Italian is to keep the throttle pinned above 80mph, where its superior shove (an overboost function delivers 192lb ft for short bursts) and lower roofline give it a decisive edge"
"The Abarth is at its bombastic best here, tearing along, leaving the equally eager Cooper S trailing in its wake. It’s not sophisticated, the 500, but boy does it know how to entertain"
"But none of this matters. It doesn’t even matter that, aside from Zig Zag Hill, every move the Abarth has made all day the Cooper S has had covered. Why? Because the 500 knows how to have fun. It’s an extrovert, pure and simple, and like all of life’s characters, the Abarth is great to spend time with, leaving an empty space when it’s gone"
Obviously this is a little bias, the Mini does well too. But i'm just highlighting the A500 here
A few quotes from EVO:
"the Abarth giving the Mini a very hard time around one sequence in particular – a steep uphill hairpin left that tightens at the exit before curving straight into a 90 right"
"The 500 – smaller, lighter, grippier, fierier – is all over the back of the Cooper S. It squirms down into second, digs in eagerly, keeps tight control of its nose and squirts up to the next bend, the tight left where photographer Kenny P is standing, Canon poised. The Mini’s driver and I swap seats and go again. Yep, right here the Cooper S feels bulkier, more sluggish, like it’s been caught with its trousers down"
"Not that 1035kg is excessive. It’s 170kg less than the Mini and that hands the Abarth a superior power-to-weight ratio. I’m amazed when I first work that out, but then the 500 does feel genuinely quick"
"from the bottom of Zig Zag to the top and beyond, where the B3081 opens out into a series of temptingly fast, well-sighted sweepers, the SS keeps pace with the hard-charging S. The Mini’s only way to escape the Italian is to keep the throttle pinned above 80mph, where its superior shove (an overboost function delivers 192lb ft for short bursts) and lower roofline give it a decisive edge"
"The Abarth is at its bombastic best here, tearing along, leaving the equally eager Cooper S trailing in its wake. It’s not sophisticated, the 500, but boy does it know how to entertain"
"But none of this matters. It doesn’t even matter that, aside from Zig Zag Hill, every move the Abarth has made all day the Cooper S has had covered. Why? Because the 500 knows how to have fun. It’s an extrovert, pure and simple, and like all of life’s characters, the Abarth is great to spend time with, leaving an empty space when it’s gone"
Obviously this is a little bias, the Mini does well too. But i'm just highlighting the A500 here
He's not criticizing or underestimating the A500, just stating that the cooper is superior at certain things.
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