General Don't know if this is an oversight
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General Don't know if this is an oversight
Won’t be an oversight. It’ll be to do with WLTP.
There are a lot of cars not being offered with their full range of engines for this reason.
There are a lot of cars not being offered with their full range of engines for this reason.
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Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure
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Having read the above doc and looked at rfl rates, would I pay an extra £40 if a new 500 TA 85 suddenly developed 130g of CO2, probably. Would Fiat phase out this engine just because economy average on new tests 60% of what it used to be and it's humiliating, am not sure. Other emissions levels could rocket instead and be the death of it maybe. I guess we'll find out. The Panda TA and MJ 4x4 don't have quoted CO2 on configurator now, but the Cross still does. 
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I have a TA Panda Cross on order; order has been delayed for a month due to the new emission tests. According to my dealer, producation of TA and 1.2 was put on hold for the tests, and is only recently started up again.
Since 1.2 sells more, that is what Fiat is focusing on right now.
I just had a go on the Belgian Fiat configuration tool: "normal" Panda can only be configured with 1.2 (no TA or diesel available); 4x4 and Cross still mention TA and diesel as engine options. Same for the 500: 1.2, TA and diesel configurations possible.
Since 1.2 sells more, that is what Fiat is focusing on right now.
I just had a go on the Belgian Fiat configuration tool: "normal" Panda can only be configured with 1.2 (no TA or diesel available); 4x4 and Cross still mention TA and diesel as engine options. Same for the 500: 1.2, TA and diesel configurations possible.
I know fiat stopped having the 1.3 on the 500 months ago another 2 years they plan to stop selling diesel engines complete other then through the professional range e.g vans
I rather suspect it was just easier to get the 1.2 past WLTP as it was the more economical car in the real world.
Getting rid of Diesel passenger vehicles is stupid at this point in time. Until electric is more commonplace, Diesel still very much has a place
Looks like the 2nd hand market will be booming.
An interesting development, for sure.
With most of our cars, particularly the older ones, we’ve met or bettered the claimed fuel economy which, as far as I’m concerned, means we must be meeting the emissions targets as well. You don’t get emissions without burning fuel.
Then with our Giulietta 1.4 MultiAir we get nowhere near the claimed fuel economy - something like 60% more, in fact - and so I doubt it’s anywhere near its claimed emissions. Of course the car has been checked over and over again and seems to be running as well as it can.
Something has to give and if that’s a new testing regime, fair enough. I do feel bad for everyone who bought into FIAT’s bold claims for the TwinAir at about the same time as their bold claims for the MultiAir, maybe they figured out a way to cheat the tests at that time.
Meanwhile with my older-technology Abarth 500 returning similar economy to our 500 Lounge but rather more performance, I feel that in the real world it can be considered ‘very economical’. Much lighter on fuel than the (heavier, larger) Giulietta anyway. We’ll see whether this translates to good results in these new tests. I imagine it won’t, because the 1.2 will seem to be better even though you get less than half the power from it, so it’s not really a fair comparison unless driven to achieve the same performance. At the end of the day, it’s down to the driver, and I wonder if the testing will capture that.
-Alex
With most of our cars, particularly the older ones, we’ve met or bettered the claimed fuel economy which, as far as I’m concerned, means we must be meeting the emissions targets as well. You don’t get emissions without burning fuel.
Then with our Giulietta 1.4 MultiAir we get nowhere near the claimed fuel economy - something like 60% more, in fact - and so I doubt it’s anywhere near its claimed emissions. Of course the car has been checked over and over again and seems to be running as well as it can.
Something has to give and if that’s a new testing regime, fair enough. I do feel bad for everyone who bought into FIAT’s bold claims for the TwinAir at about the same time as their bold claims for the MultiAir, maybe they figured out a way to cheat the tests at that time.
Meanwhile with my older-technology Abarth 500 returning similar economy to our 500 Lounge but rather more performance, I feel that in the real world it can be considered ‘very economical’. Much lighter on fuel than the (heavier, larger) Giulietta anyway. We’ll see whether this translates to good results in these new tests. I imagine it won’t, because the 1.2 will seem to be better even though you get less than half the power from it, so it’s not really a fair comparison unless driven to achieve the same performance. At the end of the day, it’s down to the driver, and I wonder if the testing will capture that.
-Alex
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I agree but fiat have basically said they stopping doing the engine's for small cars
All because of the problems with meeting nox emissions
My 500 has the 1.3 lump and it's great for the car
Allthrough a pig to work on in the engine bay because of the size
The smaller the engine the easier it is to meet NOX standards, if they can’t they just pour a load of adblue into the exhaust so NOX emissions are not even worth discussing, the real problem is since all the media scare tactics and over sensationalising every thing, diesel sales have dropped and small cars like fiat produce tend to do small distances so it’s really not worth offering diesels specifically here in Europe, go to places like India and South America and they can sell diesels all day every day and continue to do so.
Meanwhile here Diesel is the devil here in Europe and anywhere where the diesel gate scandal is discussed in the news
Give it a few years and petrol or hybrids Will be the evil thing and we should all be getting rid of them
Oh certainly!!
Then will come the stories of cancer being caused by strong electromagnetic fields from fast chargers, and the chemical in batteries killing us all by some how leaking from the car into our brains, the papers are not happy unless there is at least one thing killing us all at least.
Love the fuel economy I get from my 2l Diesel 3 series estate.
Drove to Spa for the 24 hour race on the weekend and am in Calais at the moment,
Have been doing just a touch under 70mpg on the journey. Nothing short of electric would be cheaper for me to drive.
Drove to Spa for the 24 hour race on the weekend and am in Calais at the moment,
Have been doing just a touch under 70mpg on the journey. Nothing short of electric would be cheaper for me to drive.
There’s always some idiot happy to be lied to.
Have a look on Facebook when any manufacturer posts something about a BEV, countless luddites post about how the future is obviously hydrogen despite the fact that fuel cell vehicles all have batteries because fuel cells aren’t great at supplying peak demand like batteries or internal combustion engines.
Plus there’s also the fact that hydrogen takes 3-4 times the amount of electricity to produce and transport as the equivalent amount of electricity you’d need to drive your car 100 miles. So hydrogen is going to cost 3-4 times as much per mile, PLUS we’ll have to have more nuclear power plants, wind turbines, hydro plants, tidal power stations and solar installations just to power cars with hydrogen which you’re going to end up converting to electricity in the end.
What will change in the future is the power density of batteries and how quickly we can charge them.
Indeed, aside fro the enormous expense of hysdrogen fuel cells, hydrogen as a combustion fuel has been dead for a long time, but about 20 years ago that’s all the media could talk about, people can’t see past putting something in their car with a pump, the whole concept of charging a car and taking hours to do it rather than minutes is alien to them.
As new generations grow up they will think nothing of plugging their car in like everything else they own that needs charging.
