Fiat 500 2010 won't start but is ticking over and will only open with key fob some times and RAC man has no idea what won't this is his report

Nicdim said:

Fiat 500 2010 won't start but is ticking over and will only open with key fob some times and RAC man has no idea what won't this is his report

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Actually I'd say the RAC report is a pretty good summary of what's likely to have happened here.

I'm guessing your car has S/S fitted (it became standard from the 2010 model year).

If so, be aware that connecting any form of charging or jump starting equipment directly across the battery terminals can permanently damage the battery management and charging electronics. There is a specific warning against doing so in the documentation that came with the car. IIRC when I collected my car from the supplying dealer, I had to sign a form saying that I understood this before taking delivery. There were a few different variants of the system fitted to the early cars and some may be more sensitive to damage than others.

If the RAC report is correct, you've tried to recover a flat battery by connecting a charger directly to the battery terminals and have burned out the charging electronics. You'll need manufacturer-specific software tools to diagnose this properly (most independent garages and auto electricians won't have this), so you're probably going to have to get the car to either a franchised dealer or an independent FIAT specialist. It might be possible to diagnose using multiecuscan.

Whatever you do, you're almost certainly going to need a new battery. If you go down the franchised dealer route, you might first want to buy one from any of the usual sources, as you'll likely save £100-£150 on the battery cost. You must fit a battery specifically designed for S/S use; it'll cost you a little under £100 if you buy it from one of the discounters & fit it yourself; Fiat dealers typically charge £200-£250 fitted.

Sadly I don't think this is going to be cheap; if the electronics are damaged, this will be considerably more than the battery cost. Please ask if you have any further questions and do let us know how you get on.

For anyone else with a S/S car, please take this as a warning as to what may happen if you try to recharge a battery without understanding the specific requirements of Fiat's S/S system, and never, ever, connect anything directly across the battery terminals. If you must recharge or jump start with the battery connected, connect the +ve lead to the + battery terminal, and the -ve lead to a secure earthing point on the chassis.

jrkitching said:

For anyone else with a S/S car, please take this as a warning as to what may happen if you try to recharge a battery without understanding the specific requirements of Fiat's S/S system, and never, ever, connect anything directly across the battery terminals. If you must recharge or jump start with the battery connected, connect the +ve lead to the + battery terminal, and the -ve lead to a secure earthing point on the chassis.

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This is standard advice for any manual I've ever read. The idea is to prevent a possible hydrogen explosion, and not to anything specific to Fiat or S/S.

I've charged UFI across the battery terminals without issue (any modern charger should have anti sparking technology anyway). I'm sure it's best practice to follow the manual, but I'd suggest the charging system developed a fault, leading to the flat battery, rather than the other way around.

The lack of punctuation in that report makes it difficult to read - at least to a novice like me - but I read it as "NON(E) START, BATTERY 7V,". If that's so then the battery is past recharging and is scrap surely. With it still in-circuit it might be impossible to jump-start the car.

I would advise against in car charging of the battery (i.e. charger connected while battery is still connected to car) on any modern car. Old battery chargers were poorly regulated and high ripple. modern ones have other issues including leakage currents. While they should be designed to resist abuse, modern automotive electronics can be damaged easily.
The OP needs to try a new, charged stop start battery before doing anything else. Then get it checked by a competent auto electrician.


Robert G8RPI.

Hi every one thanks for all ur comments,I didn't no that jump starting a car was such a issue I am still a bit confused about what I possibly could have done but i no now an won't be doing it again.My poor 500 is in a garage an all I no at the min is he did a battery test and it come back fine i will no more tomorrow thanks again

g8rpi said:

I would advise against in car charging of the battery (i.e. charger connected while battery is still connected to car) on any modern car.

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I charge most of my car batteries daily, across the terminals, no issues to date. I've even used an old fashioned non-regulated charger. Disconnecting the battery can cause issues too like loss of S/S until the system re-learns.

UFI said:

I charge most of my car batteries daily, across the terminals, no issues to date. I've even used an old fashioned non-regulated charger. Disconnecting the battery can cause issues too like loss of S/S until the system re-learns.

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Why?
You sould never have to charge the battery on a car that is used reguarly.
Apparently you are very experienced at battery charging, most peoplr are not. There are safety and possible damage isues thatmean you shold avoid it if possible.

I'm old school and have always charged batteries while still in the car. I have, since having the 500s always disconnected the earth terminal, just because the quick release make it so easy to do but I wasn't aware it could cause damage.

If you do have some circuitry damaged, if it's an ECU, as there are so many of them on the 500, you could more than likely replace one from a used one for probably less than £50 depending on which ECU it was. Then it would only need a proxy alignment to be done and hopefully, a lesson learned.

g8rpi said:

There are safety and possible damage issues that mean you shold avoid it if possible.

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:yeahthat:

Absolutely. You might get away with it 99 times, and then on the 100th occasion, it turns round and bites you.

You are only one stray high voltage spike from giving yourself a £1000 problem.

Apparently the main dealer I bought my car from had an IBS ruined by their own workshop staff doing exactly this during a PDI; hence they now make customers sign a disclaimer before taking delivery.

It's a bit like opening up computers without properly earthing yourself; most of the time you'll get away with it, then one day a burst of static fries a motherboard.

g8rpi said:

Why?
You sould never have to charge the battery on a car that is used reguarly.
Apparently you are very experienced at battery charging, most peoplr are not. There are safety and possible damage isues thatmean you shold avoid it if possible.

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I've used a CTEK smart charger very successfully over the last couple of years charging my Saab's battery during periods of infrequent use in situ using the correct leads with no issues. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to clag one of these bits of kit up when you've got the right leads, so for me it isn't an issue.

Unfortunately the only issue I did have, was buying a so called 'brand new' battery from a well known online site only to discover after a great deal of research on the internet decrypting letters and numbes stamped on the casing that the battery was in fact 4 years old! I didn't actually discover this until the battery started to regularly die, even after 500 mile round trips. It only lasted just over two years and was supposed to have a 5 year warranty. I've since bought a Yuasa from my local motor factors, it was manufactured just four months before I purchased it and has been rock solid so far.

Battery manufacture date codes it seems, are like trying to decipher top secret encryption, most batteries don't come with a simple date code of manufacture on them. On many, you'll just find an undecipherable bunch of gobblydegook stamped on the casing which doesn't help the consumer one iota.

Does this only apply to stop/start cars? or in general all 500's, not that I let the battery get to this point as I change the it before its totally bust as should all people.

I should think it applies to all modern cars. After reading all the above (and being well aware of the critical role a 'perfect' battery plays in the S/S system) I shan't remove, recharge or in any way interfere with my car's battery ever again - and sure as hell I won't jump-start the car or use it to jump-start another!

Since I got the battery replaced nearly two years ago the S/S has functioned exactly to spec and the car has exhibited no electrical faults whatsoever. It gets used at least every two or three days so, if and when the battery displays even the slightest hint of having lost its edge, I'll get it replaced professionally immediately. It's just too damn risky.

Hi every one my 500 is back at the cost of £627
It needed
A battery
Started motor
Thermostat replaced
Thanks all again to replying

Ouch, that sounds a lot!

Nicdim said:

Hi every one my 500 is back at the cost of £627
It needed
A battery
Started motor
Thermostat replaced
Thanks all again to replying

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Worth noting that none of this could have been damaged by jump starting, recharging or fitting a battery yourself.

I've experimented with the 500's charging system quite a bit, including a home made Lithium battery and all has been fine.

Those advising against charging on the car would have a fit if you saw how the trade treat cars in this respect, jump started with over powered jump packs, industrial fast chargers which force the power in as quick as possible, or charging the battery in jump start mode. Cars sit in show rooms for weeks on charge these days. Oh and my favourite which I've witnessed on at least a couple of occasions trying to jump or charge a battery with the terminals reversed and taking out the master fuses.

In all of the cases witnessed there was never any electronics damage.

As I said, the car electronics should be protected against surges and abuse, but why risk it when most modern cars have quick disconnect negative bttery connectors? One issue is that damage may not be immediately obvious. A common means of protection is a transient suppressors. These can be degraded or fail open circuit with abuse. They did their job that time but are not there to protect you the next, or even from smaller surges during normal operation. This type of damage is cumulative. You might be able to buy some ECU's on ebay for £50, but for some cars, damaging one ECU can mean replacing body computer, engine ECU, steering lock, key module and the keys. This could be more than the value of the car.

Robrt G8RPI.

Have to say the Mazda 6 all years even my "old 56 plate" is VERY battery sensitive and can throw up all sorts of strange issues like stalling between slow gear changes on the motorway at 60 MPH, its critical owners replace the battery when it starts to give hints its not as good as it used to be, but most owners don't hear the issue IE slow cranking, "well it starts so whats the issue?" err its telling you to think about changing it?