Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[ahmett]

Hi, I'm new to the site and am looking for some advice. My wife has a 500C with dualogic gearbox. We have had the car from new and it has done 50k miles - the car now has a gearbox problem, It showed gearbox temp warning light then lost all drive. Regained drive after restarting car but only going forward in about 3rd gear, starting and staying in that gear but the strangest thing was with the gearlever in the reverse poition. There was a slight burn smell but the car got me about 2 miles to our local Fiat dealer with a bleeper sounding most of the time and without it changing gear. Dealership suggests replacement accuator and clutch - any ideas and advice would be much appriecated. Thank you.

Hi, is the actuator leaking? If it is not and looks fine, it could just be the clutch.

This is what happened to me the last time. If the actuator is leaking fluid then you are in trouble and as JrKitching said, you'd best replace the whole unit for around 1200 GBP.

 

[ahmett]

Thought I would give a little update on the dualogic/selespeed thread, I’ve now bought a Grande Punto dualogic with gearbox issues, I’m going to run the car for 6 months or so and work out exactly what causes all of the different problems they suffer with. I’ve got several used dualogic actuators to play with and will put the hours in and hopefully come up with fixes for any of the problems they suffer. Too many good cars go to scrap for this problem. Now I’m not tied to a dealer I’m sure I will have fixes soon.

Keep up the good work deano! If I bring my Fiat 500 to the UK and have Dualogic Issues, I will come and use you!

 

[irc]

Hi, is the actuator leaking? If it is not and looks fine, it could just be the clutch.

You beat me to it... had a friend with same symptoms - no leaks, pump OK, but burning smell and only 1 gear.

Garage quoted 1300+ for new actuator.

Was knackered clutch. Helped him with the calibration once he had changed it. Been fine ever since.
burrowsdeano - I really like your plan... hope you come up with some fixes. There's been quite a few Dualogics getting scrapped through rubbish diagnosis and scary quotes from garages. Seems a shame to me that such a basically simple piece of engineering scares garages so much.

 

[ahmett]

You beat me to it... had a friend with same symptoms - no leaks, pump OK, but burning smell and only 1 gear.

Garage quoted 1300+ for new actuator.

Was knackered clutch. Helped him with the calibration once he had changed it. Been fine ever since.
burrowsdeano - I really like your plan... hope you come up with some fixes. There's been quite a few Dualogics getting scrapped through rubbish diagnosis and scary quotes from garages. Seems a shame to me that such a basically simple piece of engineering scares garages so much.

Excellent news, saved them a lot of money. It's really as simple as looking below the car, if you see no leaks from the Dualogic Unit and hear the pump priming when you start the car then you can be quite sure that the unit itself is fine.

People need to be aware that when the clutch wears out, the gears do not change so easily from R,N and 1 and it gets progressively worse until you can't it get out of neutral at all, which is what happened to me!

 

[irc]

People need to be aware that when the clutch wears out, the gears do not change so easily from R,N and 1 and it gets progressively worse until you can't it get out of neutral at all...

Yep. From what I've seen, I reckon either knackered clutch or tired pump motor are probably the cause of most of the "non-leaking" problems. Both easy fixes too (although clutch calibration procedure freaked me out the first time!)

Tired pump motor seems to usually coincide with knackered accumulator (makes sense, as pump has to work harder) so probably a good idea to change both at the same time.

There's also the possibility of a properly knackered gearbox... only seen one so far, I think the box had a leaking driveshaft seal, ran low on oil, and eventually the actuator could not change gear. Certainly there wasn't much oil left in it.
Original actuator was fine once fitted to a recon gearbox.

Leaks are more of a pain, but still usually fixable. But... I have a theory that some of them are caused by knackered clutch not being fixed soon enough. Extra strain on actuator seals?

(Edited to add...) Oh yeah, forgot to mention random electrical faults, which seem to be pretty common too on Pandas and 500s.
So far, the ones I've seen or been told about are battery, tailgate wiring or bad earth related. They seem to have similar symptoms on non-dualogic cars, except for random strange gearchanges. Fixing the underlying problem seems to cure.

 

[F17ljt]

Hi

My partner has a 1.4 2014 semi auto 500.

We have recently just got a issue with the transmission.
It’s jumping out of gear randomly at times, goes into limp mode only allowing 1,2&3 gears.

I plugged the snap on computer into it tonight ..
Any ideas on what the actual issue is and how to fix ?

 

[John202020]

re: Another dualogic problem

Take a read of the post below "one and only durologic failure " there seems to be several issues often its the actuator that a an issue especially if there's fluid leaking but also recently several people have had new clutches fitted and it's transformed the car I would suggest taking it to a garage that's had a lot of experience wolith this type of gearbox.

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Another dualogic problem

Hello and welcome.

This problem is so common we've a whole thread devoted to it (this one).

I've copied this across to here so as to keep everything in one place.

Have a read of the previous page; another 500 owner with a similar issue posted only a few days ago and the replies are just as relevant to your situation.

Do not expect to be able to diagnose this properly with a generic code reader. Fiat specific software (either a franchised dealer, or multiecuscan) will likely be required.

As is often said, you need to find a mechanic who truly understands these gearboxes; even main dealers have been known to spend a lot of their customers money replacing unnecessary parts.

 

[burrowsdeano]

Happy new year to everyone.
I’ve now stripped the dualogic actuator from the Grande Punto I’m using as a test car. Fixed a couple of suspect internal faults and it’s now fitted back to the car. Will stick 12 months tax on it this week and run it for the year while testing out different fixes. The plan is to then put a document together with fault codes and fixes for each one. I’ve got about 10 actuators with different faults to play with. Will post again in here when I’ve got some results.

 

[AdrianD]

Hi all, I have a Panda 1.2 with the Dualogic auto box. Some time ago I set off as usual in auto E mode, about 2 miles later the gearbox changed to neutral as I slowed for a roundabout. No warning messages, just couldn't select 1st gear. I turned the engine off, restarted and hey ho the gearbox started working after a bit of fiddling about.


4 weeks later the same thing and again every 2 months or so there after.


I drove from Watford to Venice and back with no issues but back in the UK the problem got much worse. Its the same jump to neutral after a short drive and wait till the engine cools before it'll go again.


When it stops working I can hear the actuator trying to select a gear but it remains in neutral.


Someone told me it would be a sensor fault probably the crankshaft speed sensor and/or the ABS wheel speed sensor and advised I get the ECU codes first.


Thanks for listening any/all ideas welcome.

 

[John202020]

Clutch?

 

[ahmett]

Hi all, I have a Panda 1.2 with the Dualogic auto box. Some time ago I set off as usual in auto E mode, about 2 miles later the gearbox changed to neutral as I slowed for a roundabout. No warning messages, just couldn't select 1st gear. I turned the engine off, restarted and hey ho the gearbox started working after a bit of fiddling about.


4 weeks later the same thing and again every 2 months or so there after.


I drove from Watford to Venice and back with no issues but back in the UK the problem got much worse. Its the same jump to neutral after a short drive and wait till the engine cools before it'll go again.


When it stops working I can hear the actuator trying to select a gear but it remains in neutral.


Someone told me it would be a sensor fault probably the crankshaft speed sensor and/or the ABS wheel speed sensor and advised I get the ECU codes first.


Thanks for listening any/all ideas welcome.

Check below the car. If there is no fluid leak and there is still decent fluid in the system and you hear the pump priming when you turn on the car initially, then I am thinking it is the clutch.

I get the feeling that the clutch on the dualogic lasts much less than a manual car.

 

[Mich1000]

Hi, bit late to the party, I’m uk but having gearfaults with my Dualogic. Il be driving along and it drops to neutral, and won’t always go back into gear without pulling over and turning engine off a few times. Garage cant find anything on diagnostics, and I’m kind of tied into finance for another 18 months......am I screwed?? Iv got a Fiat 500 by diesel x

 

[jrkitching]

Hi, bit late to the party, I’m uk but having gearfaults with my Dualogic. Il be driving along over and turning engine off a few times. Garage cant find anything on diagnostics, and I’m kind of tied into finance for another 18 months......am I screwed? and it drops to neutral, and won’t always go back into gear without pulling? Iv got a Fiat 500 by diesel x

Hello and welcome to the forum.

The thanks are for posting this in the right place; as far as I am aware, this is the first time a first time poster has done this!

Sorry to hear about your troubles; if you've read the rest of this thread, you've probably already got most of the answers. If the diagnostics have been done by a main dealer or Fiat specialist, you may just have to wait for the problem to develop to the point where it can be diagnosed; there's not much we can do from a keyboard to improve on that.

If the diagnostics were done by a general independent garage using a generic code reader, then I'd suggest paying a specialist or franchised dealer for a proper diagnosis.

If it's working normally and there are no warning lights or stored fault codes, then trading it in now may be your best option, even if it means taking a hit on the finance. Sometimes cutting your losses by taking the hit now is the best way to keep those losses to a minimum.

 

[Mich1000]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

The thanks are for posting this in the right place; as far as I am aware, this is the first time a first time poster has done this!

Sorry to hear about your troubles; if you've read the rest of this thread, you've probably already got most of the answers. If the diagnostics have been done by a main dealer or Fiat specialist, you may just have to wait for the problem to develop to the point where it can be diagnosed; there's not much we can do from a keyboard to improve on that.

If the diagnostics were done by a general independent garage using a generic code reader, then I'd suggest paying a specialist or franchised dealer for a proper diagnosis.

If it's working normally and there are no warning lights or stored fault codes, then trading it in now may be your best option, even if it means taking a hit on the finance. Sometimes cutting your losses by taking the hit now is the best way to keep those losses to a minimum.

Thank you! It was an independent garage, so maybe I should try Fiat. Just reading here I’m not sure that will get me anywhere lol! Pants, I love my little car and really can’t afford to be paying 2 lots of finance if I need something else.....it’s goinf in Thursday for wheel bearings so will get them to take another look....& maybe show them this thread!

 

[jrkitching]

Thank you! It was an independent garage, so maybe I should try Fiat. Just reading here I’m not sure that will get me anywhere lol! Pants, I love my little car and really can’t afford to be paying 2 lots of finance if I need something else.....it’s goinf in Thursday for wheel bearings so will get them to take another look....& maybe show them this thread!

They can look all they want but they're not going to be able to interrogate the gearbox ECU without Fiat-specific software.

If you do need to replace the actuator, this is probably the cheapest place to buy one; you can get a further 10% discount on that price if you make a donation to this forum. But I'd caution against replacing this unless diagnostics have first confirmed that it's the cause of your troubles; it's too expensive a part to just swap out in the hope that it will fix things.

 

[ahmett]

Hi, bit late to the party, I’m uk but having gearfaults with my Dualogic. Il be driving along and it drops to neutral, and won’t always go back into gear without pulling over and turning engine off a few times. Garage cant find anything on diagnostics, and I’m kind of tied into finance for another 18 months......am I screwed?? Iv got a Fiat 500 by diesel x

If there is no light coming up and nothing on diagnostics, it may be the clutch. That's what happened to me. How many miles does it have and how old is it?

If there is plenty of fluid in the reservoir (you check the level by putting the car on a ramp) and there is no obvious leakage, then my bet is your clutch needs replacing!

From my experience, the clutches don't last nearly as long as proper manuals, even though it's the same clutch.

 

[Mich1000]

If there is no light coming up and nothing on diagnostics, it may be the clutch. That's what happened to me. How many miles does it have and how old is it?

If there is plenty of fluid in the reservoir (you check the level by putting the car on a ramp) and there is no obvious leakage, then my bet is your clutch needs replacing!

From my experience, the clutches don't last nearly as long as proper manuals, even though it's the same clutch.

2011 and....wait for it....110000! I do have a very lovely mechanic who won’t do anything that might cost me unless he’s 100% it’s the right thing to do....so I imagine Thursday he’s going to send me to fiat lol

 

[ahmett]

2011 and....wait for it....110000! I do have a very lovely mechanic who won’t do anything that might cost me unless he’s 100% it’s the right thing to do....so I imagine Thursday he’s going to send me to fiat lol

wow ok. seriously if its not leaking, get the clutch changed! go to any dealer with diagnostics, dont get ripped off with a fiat clutch change, I change mine at Bosch Car Service as bosch has all the diagnostic tools necessary (after all they make most car electornics including fiat!).

 

[trojan62]

hi all,
ive recently been having problems with my fiat 500 just going into neutral, even tho the gearstick is in auto mode, very dangerous. the car just stopped with no way of selecting auto again. the first time this happend it lasted about 10 minutes before i could get going again. The next day it went again, took 25 minutes.
booked the car to fiat in st albans uk. got it back next day and they said they have upgraded the software, whatever that is supposed to mean.
went on me again a couple of days later. booked it in again and as i was taking it there it went on me again, 45 minutes this time.
after the weekend i got it back and they said they have fitted a new actutator.
been running it for the week and everything seems ok.

what id like to know is what does the acutator actually do and will my car be ok now in the long run, also what the hell`s a software update.

any info would be appreciatted,,,thanks...