Register Login
Shop4Parts - UK's largest online superstore for FIAT and Alfa Romeo parts
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-06-2016   #196
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 51
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: The one and only Dualogic failure thread

Thanks for the link Chas...The differences are that our engine doesn't cut out and there are no dash warning lights. It seems there are a million things that can go wrong with these things!
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Broker1 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 09-06-2016   #197
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Holmfirth
Posts: 35
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: The one and only Dualogic failure thread

Quote Originally Posted by Broker1 View Post
Thanks for the link Chas...The differences are that our engine doesn't cut out and there are no dash warning lights. It seems there are a million things that can go wrong with these things!
What you are experiencing is often the start of problems that culminate in a Christmas Tree dash eventually though... if you do a search for "fiat jumps into neutral".

It's quite possible your issue is JUST the sensor, however an earthing problem could also be frying sensors and mean the problem isn't resolved just by replacing the sensor.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Noetic Concordance is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-06-2016   #198
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 178
Thanks: 3
Trader Rating: 0
Australia 
Oh Dear....Another DEAD Dualogic (in Australia)

Wife was driving the 500 TwinAir yesterday (Thursday) and the gearbox went into neutral.
She was going into a motorway underpass that has a roundabout each side and stopped right under the motorway in a very dangerous spot

Was exiting the roundabout so it would have been upshifting from 2nd to 3rd, but went into neutral
A little red "car with bonnet up" indicator came on - nothing else
She rang me and I said to shut down and restart which she did, but it would not select 1st gear
No indicator lights came on and the red "car with bonnet up" disappeared - all looked normal
So she tried reverse and it made a horrible crunching sound - her words
Any gear would have meant that she could have moved it away from the "bad" location

So she rang Roadside Assist and they said there would be 30 minute wait
I was only 15 minutes away so I went and redid the restart thing with the same result
No lights in the instrument console and trying to select 1st gear a few clicks
and the crunch when trying to select reverse.

The battery was replaced by Roadside Assist about 12 months back when the car would not start after driving to a supermarket, so that should eliminate the battery

There have been no problems or hiccups with the gearbox or the whole car for that matter
But upon reflection, couple of days back as we left home on a cooler than normal day (for us)
turned left at a "T" intersection about 500 metres from home and as we accelerated away it seemed to miss-fire.
Just a bit of a hesitation then went OK for the remainder of the trip and return.
My wife commented, so it was quite noticeable and was about the same time as a gear change
meaning that it faultered right after the gear change - maybe that was something going wrong then ??

Anyway with trucks missing it by 6" it didn't get flattened in the underpass and finally got towed off to the Fiat dealer
Rang them when I got home and it had just arrived - now booked in for Tuesday for diagnostics
Was lucky in one way as warranty runs out in 8 days time so we dodged that bullet
So assuming that they find it is a warranty issue, my concern is that they will "bodge" it to get it out of warranty and then it becomes my problem - and what a problem
$6000 for the controller !!!!!!!!! ....
We both love the little Fiat so will be a hard decision to keep and risk, or sell
Anyway, for now we have to wait and see what they come up with

I have read this thread and ask if there are any issues I should be aware of that might indicate that they are taking the easy/cheap way out ??
Any advice will be appreciated
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by Aussie500nut; 10-06-2016 at 01:21.
Aussie500nut is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-06-2016   #199
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 178
Thanks: 3
Trader Rating: 0
Australia 
Oh Dear....Another DEAD Dualogic (in Australia)

Update
When it went to the dealer yesterday they said I had to approve a 1hour diagnostic charge of about $150 in case the problem is found not to be covered by warranty ???????????????

Surely if the gearbox stops working I thought it would be warranty as there was no service requirement (as far as I recall) on the Dualogic in the 30K and 45K services that were carried out by Fiat dealers and they did the last service.

A call from them today to say that a preliminary codes check has been done and now needs 3 hours of diagnostics that may find a fault that is not be covered by warranty. Codes indicated a jammed actuator

So I have to approve another 3 hours at close enough to $150 per hour just to find our what is wrong and if they deem that it is not a manufacturing defect I will have to pay for the repair ... plus the towing charges.

They are saying that they have to check to see if we have done anything to cause the failure ...... WHAT THE ???????????

How would I - or my wife jam an actuator ??????? Are they kidding ??????
it is an "automatic" - for sh#ts sake.
They are supposed to be fool proof
Surely, if you press both brake and throttle at the same time, not recommended, they just do brakes - as in fail safe.
Maybe even shift to neutral but they shouldn't "hurt themselves"
Not that this is what happened here - the only controls being touched at the time were the throttle and steering wheel

Until Tuesday
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by Aussie500nut; 10-06-2016 at 08:38.
Aussie500nut is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-06-2016   #200
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dorset
Posts: 8,296
Thanks: 872
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Oh Dear....Another DEAD Dualogic (in Australia)

Quote Originally Posted by Aussie500nut View Post
So I have to approve another 3 hours at close enough to $150 per hour just to find our what is wrong and if they deem that it is not a manufacturing defect I will have to pay for the repair ... plus the towing charges.
Condolences; this is not a nice place to be.

What you're experiencing mirrors what many have posted about the harsher side of Fiat's warranty . It's like they're assuming it's your fault, then demanding $600 of your money just so they can do a detailed search to find some reason to justify that position.

Quote Originally Posted by Aussie500nut View Post
I have read this thread and ask if there are any issues I should be aware of that might indicate that they are taking the easy/cheap way out ??
Get a list of all parts which have been replaced.

I'd be very suspicious if all they did was to free off a jammed actuator.

Whatever they do now, how can you be expected to have any confidence in the long term sustainability of the car? Even if they replace the entire gearbox and selespeed unit, why should you reasonably expect a new one to last any longer than the old one has? So even in the best possible case, in 3yrs time, you could be looking at a $6000 bill .
__________________


"Just 'cos you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you"


Last edited by jrkitching; 10-06-2016 at 08:56.
jrkitching is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-06-2016   #201
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 4,178
Thanks: 80
Trader Rating: 0
Greece 
Re: Oh Dear....Another DEAD Dualogic (in Australia)

Quote Originally Posted by Aussie500nut View Post
Update
When it went to the dealer yesterday they said I had to approve a 1hour diagnostic charge of about $150 in case the problem is found not to be covered by warranty ???????????????

Surely if the gearbox stops working I thought it would be warranty as there was no service requirement (as far as I recall) on the Dualogic in the 30K and 45K services that were carried out by Fiat dealers and they did the last service.

A call from them today to say that a preliminary codes check has been done and now needs 3 hours of diagnostics that may find a fault that is not be covered by warranty. Codes indicated a jammed actuator

So I have to approve another 3 hours at close enough to $150 per hour just to find our what is wrong and if they deem that it is not a manufacturing defect I will have to pay for the repair ... plus the towing charges.

They are saying that they have to check to see if we have done anything to cause the failure ...... WHAT THE ???????????

How would I - or my wife jam an actuator ??????? Are they kidding ??????
it is an "automatic" - for sh#ts sake.
They are supposed to be fool proof
Surely, if you press both brake and throttle at the same time, not recommended, they just do brakes - as in fail safe.
Maybe even shift to neutral but they shouldn't "hurt themselves"
Not that this is what happened here - the only controls being touched at the time were the throttle and steering wheel

Until Tuesday
I have very simple words of advise for you. If they do not replace the whole dualogic unit for free, under warranty, sell the car. It is simply not worth the risk, trust me. I have been there before, and it took 3 years of misery with fiat and on and off problems before Fiat finally fixed the whole dualogic sysstem out of warranty, costing me 1300 EUR, but in Aussieland the same problem will cost 6000 AUD. Not worth it for a budget car.

In my case, they changed the actuator but the probem came back after a year. Then we changed the actuator again, and the problem came back again! Finally, at the third attempt Fiat changed the whole system, i feel they did this on purpose to make me pay for the whole system instead of changing the whole system under warranty in the first place.
Likes liav24, jrkitching liked this post
__________________

Last edited by ahmett; 10-06-2016 at 09:27.
ahmett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-06-2016   #202
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 178
Thanks: 3
Trader Rating: 0
Australia 
Re: Oh Dear....Another DEAD Dualogic (in Australia)

Thanks for your replies

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
Condolences; this is not a nice place to be..
Thanks - yes it is a feeling of utter helplessness just waiting to get shafted and knowing you can do nothing about it.
Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
What you're experiencing mirrors what many have posted about the harsher side of Fiat's warranty . It's like they're assuming it's your fault, then demanding $600 of your money just so they can do a detailed search to find some reason to justify that position.
And when they do I have no argument as they hold all the cards - including my car that I don't have the use of.
That's what is burning me up !!!
Might contact Fiat CS to check if this is their usual protocol.
Over the past 40 years when I have had warranty work done on cars I have never been asked up front for an authorisation to pay.

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
Get a list of all parts which have been replaced.

I'd be very suspicious if all they did was to free off a jammed actuator..
Thanks - good idea.
BTW ....It has only done 58,00kms with no city traffic as we live semi rural and is mostly 80 and 100kph driving.
I will be lucky to get it back before the warranty runs out and if all they do is free it up I will need some assurance that the repair has some sort of guarantee. No telling how long it will take to jam again and then I am up for the tow and the repair

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
Whatever they do now, how can you be expected to have any confidence in the long term sustainability of the car? Even if they replace the entire gearbox and selespeed unit, why should you reasonably expect a new one to last any longer than the old one has? So even in the best possible case, in 3yrs time, you could be looking at a $6000 bill .
Unfortunately you are right
As much as we love the car I think it has reached its use by date.
Even as you say, with another complete new control unit it could fail in a couple of years. But I somehow doubt that the will replace the whole unit.

They are a fun car and it is such a pity it is let down initially by bad design, then lack of rectification in that Fiat is aware that the Dualogic has had problems but done nothing to prevent them.

Quote Originally Posted by ahmett View Post
I have very simple words of advise for you. If they do not replace the whole dualogic unit for free, under warranty, sell the car. It is simply not worth the risk, trust me. I have been there before, and it took 3 years of misery with fiat and on and off problems before Fiat finally fixed the whole dualogic sysstem out of warranty, costing me 1300 EUR, but in Aussieland the same problem will cost 6000 AUD. Not worth it for a budget car.

In my case, they changed the actuator but the probem came back after a year. Then we changed the actuator again, and the problem came back again! Finally, at the third attempt Fiat changed the whole system, i feel they did this on purpose to make me pay for the whole system instead of changing the whole system under warranty in the first place.
Thanks Ahmett
I have followed your exploits with the gearbox over the past 3 years and could feel your frustration and pain at the time.
Yes it will be interesting to see what they do - it is all about money - but it is a sad state of affairs if their warranty is based on just getting your car to the end by what ever means. Does nothing to build brand loyalty, quite the opposite

Also good to know if they replace the actuator it should be good for 12 months

Totally agree that $6000AUD is just not in the equation.
Better to put that sort of money towards a new car not being a Fiat
Had a look at a Skoda Fabia today - nice car but not the character of the 500. Has 1.2 liter turbo with a twin clutch gearbox
Likes Nicole Lewis, 44sunsets liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by Aussie500nut; 10-06-2016 at 16:23.
Aussie500nut is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-06-2016   #203
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 51
Thanks: 1
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: The one and only Dualogic failure thread

OK, so the part was fitted on Saturday by my mate and then he took it to have a gearbox "relearn" all in at 330 inc part & fitting. The part he used is part number 71732919. At the moment the car drives really well and holds onto the gears a bit longer than before (I assume that this is due to the relearn and it will/may adapt to my wifes style of driving?)
Thanks jrkitching thanked for this post
Likes 44sunsets liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Broker1 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 21-06-2016   #204
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 7
Thanks: 3
Trader Rating: 0
Australia 
Re: 500 Dualogic failure

In Australia when a Duologic actuator fails, the replacement assemble costs $AUD7,000 plus fitting. The entry-level new car price in Australia for a POP 1.2 is around $AUD16,000, which shows you how ridiculous the spare part pricing is. Heck, even Ferrari actuators for their paddle shift transmissions are just $AUD3,000.....

We seem to have poor dealer service training here as well. A trained monkey can plug in the FIAT/ALFA Analyzer, come up with a fault code, then make a decision to replace everything instead of finding the fault.

Thanks to this forum for giving me some ideas of the potential faults.

Just looking for opinions, but have there been enough actuator failures to indicate they might have a typical failure rate? Or are they usually robust and you can just be unlucky for one failure?

My options here in Oz are to take my car to a transmission specialist who repairs actuators for other brands of cars and let them go on a voyage of discovery - funded by me of course; the worst case scenario is to buy a second hand gearbox with two actuators for $AUD750 and hope my failure was just bad luck.

It would be nice to be able to contain the cost of a replacement actuator to just the 2000 Euros I read about here.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

500abarth is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-06-2016   #205
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 178
Thanks: 3
Trader Rating: 0
Australia 
Re: 500 Dualogic failure

Quote Originally Posted by 500abarth View Post
In Australia when a Duologic actuator fails, the replacement assemble costs $AUD7,000 plus fitting. The entry-level new car price in Australia for a POP 1.2 is around $AUD16,000, which shows you how ridiculous the spare part pricing is. Heck, even Ferrari actuators for their paddle shift transmissions are just $AUD3,000.....

We seem to have poor dealer service training here as well. A trained monkey can plug in the FIAT/ALFA Analyzer, come up with a fault code, then make a decision to replace everything instead of finding the fault.

Thanks to this forum for giving me some ideas of the potential faults.

Just looking for opinions, but have there been enough actuator failures to indicate they might have a typical failure rate? Or are they usually robust and you can just be unlucky for one failure?

My options here in Oz are to take my car to a transmission specialist who repairs actuators for other brands of cars and let them go on a voyage of discovery - funded by me of course; the worst case scenario is to buy a second hand gearbox with two actuators for $AUD750 and hope my failure was just bad luck.

It would be nice to be able to contain the cost of a replacement actuator to just the 2000 Euros I read about here.
Hi
There is another tread on this issue with more recent posts
here https://www.fiatforum.com/500/425006...re-thread.html
Our 500 Twin Air is currently at the dealer following a gearbox failure
Been there 2 weeks next Thursday and they still have no idea what's wrong with it or even if it will be covered by warranty which runs out in a couple of days.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Aussie500nut is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-06-2016   #206
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 4,178
Thanks: 80
Trader Rating: 0
Greece 
Re: 500 Dualogic failure

Quote Originally Posted by Aussie500nut View Post
Hi
There is another tread on this issue with more recent posts
here https://www.fiatforum.com/500/425006...re-thread.html
Our 500 Twin Air is currently at the dealer following a gearbox failure
Been there 2 weeks next Thursday and they still have no idea what's wrong with it or even if it will be covered by warranty which runs out in a couple of days.
What's hilarious is that other than the cost, it takes about 2 hours to refit a whole dualogic assembly. Imagine how i felt without a car for 1 month (thats how long it took to come from Italy to Greece which is basically next door, so I guess no DHL they probably just do a once a month delivery to Greece from Italy and everyone waits), and then when the part came they fixed it immediately!
__________________
ahmett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 28-06-2016   #207
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 4,178
Thanks: 80
Trader Rating: 0
Greece 
Re: The one and only Dualogic failure thread

Guess what guys, my gearbox actuator is acting strange again! It sometimes does 'manual mode unavailable' and goes into auto itself and sometimes it does not go into reverse!

I get the feeling that it is a battery issue. Anyway no transmission lights yet, so on to the traditional way to deal with Fiat problems, drive it until it properly breaks since going to the dealer for minor checks is a waste of time, especially with the dualogic!
__________________
ahmett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 30-06-2016   #208
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Papamoa Beach
Posts: 5,190
Thanks: 314
Trader Rating: 1
alexGS has donated!
New Zealand 
Re: The one and only Dualogic failure thread

Quote Originally Posted by ahmett View Post
Guess what guys, my gearbox actuator is acting strange again! It sometimes does 'manual mode unavailable' and goes into auto itself and sometimes it does not go into reverse!

I get the feeling that it is a battery issue. Anyway no transmission lights yet, so on to the traditional way to deal with Fiat problems, drive it until it properly breaks since going to the dealer for minor checks is a waste of time, especially with the dualogic!
The only thing that would cause 'manual mode unavailable' would be a fault with the selector lever or the steering wheel paddles (if you have them) - probably just holding a paddle for long enough would trigger the message. Is the gear lever getting floppy in the centre position? - that could be a cause.

I didn't like the slackness in our lever, so I took it apart and secured the pivot blocks by wrapping masking tape around them, to make them a tighter fit.

I think it's highly likely that the part not replaced last time for you (the selector lever) is the fault this time

-Alex
__________________
'15 Giulietta 1.4MA, 14 Abarth 500C Esseesse, '08 500 Lounge 1.4 Dualogic, '08 G Spyder, '71 850 Coupe in bits...
alexGS is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 30-06-2016   #209
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 4,178
Thanks: 80
Trader Rating: 0
Greece 
Re: The one and only Dualogic failure thread

Quote Originally Posted by alexGS View Post
The only thing that would cause 'manual mode unavailable' would be a fault with the selector lever or the steering wheel paddles (if you have them) - probably just holding a paddle for long enough would trigger the message. Is the gear lever getting floppy in the centre position? - that could be a cause.

I didn't like the slackness in our lever, so I took it apart and secured the pivot blocks by wrapping masking tape around them, to make them a tighter fit.

I think it's highly likely that the part not replaced last time for you (the selector lever) is the fault this time

-Alex
yes you must be right because when i hit the gearbox system it then changes gear haha. any quick solution to this? i dont want to take it apart to mess it up, and i guess the Fiat dealer will be all too happy to charge me a boatload to change the lever. Is it expensive?

This morning i was stuck in 1st gear for like 30 seconds with the revs at 7000! haha my mom was like what on earth is going on with your car! i replied, 'its a fiat' haha
__________________
ahmett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-07-2016   #210
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
does anyone else had dialogic baring problems @ 30'000 miles it seems ridiculous. I have just returned from the dealership with this mind numbing news I have a disability and always drive in automatic mode the car is a 2011 500 lounge 1200 I am crushed as the dealership wants 1,000 labour to "investigate but did give me fiats customer service number has anyone else had this problem., it seems to me that this is a manufacturing fault of fiats I have a full service history and before I would give the dealership 1 ' 000 investigation would rather pay for a decent lawyer to throw the money to.
can anyone help thankyou in advance fb
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

florida brickie is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) 500 Dualogic failure cowaznik 500 66 22-06-2016 08:50
1.2 Panda Dualogic Failure scelik22 Panda 7 14-02-2015 09:18
(T) Gearbox Failure on 1.2 Dualogic. Iorek Panda 8 07-02-2015 14:34
(T) Dualogic failure number 2 ahmett 500 14 04-10-2014 11:26
(G) Dualogic transmission failure webinfoguy Grande Punto 2 18-05-2014 23:06