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Old 05-07-2012   #1
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2nd 500 pls help me decide

I've been enjoying my 2009 1.4 sport very much. I decided to sell it and buy 2012 500C Lounge. We don't have twinair in my country and I hate diesel so it's either 1.4 or 1.2 . I've driven both of them in the past but I know very little about what changed since then. I don't care about fuel economy but I do care about acceleration but not that I drive fast but 1.2 fails miserably to overtake. On the other hand 1.4 has the worst suspension and turning circle ever but I don't know if it got improved in late models(dealer also has no idea whatsoever). Especially, if suspension is the same I'll definetly go for 1.2, my spine has had enough! Please help me decide which one to choose. Also does anyone know if it's going to have a facelift? Is it worth waiting for 2013 MY? 'Cause I'll kill my self if it gets a facelift after I buy a new one.

ps. I tested 1.2 but they don't have an 2012 1.4 to test drive.
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Last edited by durukan; 05-07-2012 at 12:33.
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Old 05-07-2012   #2
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Re: 2nd 500 pls help me decide

Suispension changed for the better (a bit anyway) in 2010. As far as I know Sport and Lounge have the same suspension.

The turning circle is less good in the 1.4, and that has not changed as far as I know.

I have a vague recollection that the suspension on the C is different to the tintop?
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Old 05-07-2012   #3
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Re: 2nd 500 pls help me decide

Quote Originally Posted by durukan View Post
I don't care about fuel economy but I do care about acceleration but not that I drive fast but 1.2 fails miserably to overtake.
That would suggest to me you might regret buying a 1.2 - after owning a 1.4, I'd imagine you'd feel the disappointment each time you press the pedal in anger.

Quote Originally Posted by durukan View Post
On the other hand 1.4 has the worst suspension and turning circle ever but I don't know if it got improved in late models
I thought all variants from the 2010 model year onwards (and all 500C's) had the revised suspension - but it's easy enough to check if you look under the rear of the car.

You could always consider retrofitting pop wheels; this should smooth out the bumps somewhat.
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Old 05-07-2012   #4
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Re: 2nd 500 pls help me decide

Quote Originally Posted by RobinPJ View Post
Suispension changed for the better (a bit anyway) in 2010. As far as I know Sport and Lounge have the same suspension.
The turning circle is less good in the 1.4, and that has not changed as far as I know.
Suspension is different on the 1.4 engine being a little lower. The 1.2 & TA are the same. Spec of Pop, Sport, Lounge, Street has no 'impact'.
In the US the Sport model is 10mm lower that the Lounge & Pop but they all have the one MA engine.

Turning circle is affected by the 6 speed gearbox on the 1.4 supposedly but IIRC at 10.8M it's not that bad.

Quote Originally Posted by RobinPJ View Post
I have a vague recollection that the suspension on the C is different to the tintop?
That's true for the Abarth models. The 'C' is slightly softer compared with the tin top.
EDIT: and for simplicity the 'ARB' is in F500 'c's regardless of the year.

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
That would suggest to me you might regret buying a 1.2 - after owning a 1.4, I'd imagine you'd feel the disappointment each time you press the pedal in anger.

I thought all variants from the 2010 model year onwards (and all 500C's) had the revised suspension - but it's easy enough to check if you look under the rear of the car.

Be careful of 2009 500 models masquerating as 2010. We've already got one casualty.

Quote Originally Posted by jrkitching View Post
You could always consider retrofitting pop wheels; this should smooth out the bumps somewhat.
A compromise is the 15 inch 'Sport' alloy wheels. Conti have now released their brand new model Conti 5 in 'right' size for this wheel size.

Quote Originally Posted by durukan View Post
I've been enjoying my 2009 1.4 sport very much. I decided to sell it and buy 2012 500C Lounge. We don't have twinair in my country and I hate diesel so it's either 1.4 or 1.2 . I've driven both of them in the past but I know very little about what changed since then. I don't care about fuel economy but I do care about acceleration but not that I drive fast but 1.2 fails miserably to overtake. On the other hand 1.4 has the worst suspension and turning circle ever but I don't know if it got improved in late models(dealer also has no idea whatsoever). Especially, if suspension is the same I'll definetly go for 1.2, my spine has had enough! Please help me decide which one to choose. Also does anyone know if it's going to have a facelift? Is it worth waiting for 2013 MY? 'Cause I'll kill my self if it gets a facelift after I buy a new one.

ps. I tested 1.2 but they don't have an 2012 1.4 to test drive.
1.4 suspension is better than the 1.2 being a little lower (think it's 5-10mm). The 1.2 / TA would definitely not be any better. I haven't tried a post 2010 1.4 so I don't know how it improved over a pre 2010 1.4. But a pre 2010 1.4 was IMHO better than than the Twin Airs that I've driven. The 1.2 2010 seemed OK but it had the small wheels.

Also tyres impact the ride particularly on the 16s - I like the comfy contis and the rear shocks went early on and needed replacing after 2 years regardless of mileage.

Can you still get a 1.4 in Turkey ?

Reckon there will be an 'all new' F500 in 2013 but in a 1.2 engine I would suspect that it will be a lot slower with the weight gain. The new one will have the suspension setup of the New Panda 2012 - a drive of that will give a good indication.

Also I doubt there will be a 1.4 in the 'new' facelifted 2013 500. The Lancia Ypilson hasn't got one and the TA in 105hp guise will probably be the 'biggest' engine in the 500 / Panda / Ypilson.

Some have tried the AVO adjustable shocks in the TA but it didn't work out giving a rattle. It was also an issue on the 'Abarth side' but AVO have now accepted the issue and claim to have 'licked' the problem. That might be the case for the A500 but I doubt it on the TA / 1.2 with the longer spring.

If you were looking for a new suspension say for a 1.4 you could look at the new Koni suspension kit which comes with Brembo springs which I guess are 25mm lower than a standard 500 (Abarth is 20mm and esseesse 30mm). Unsure if they will be a little stiff for the weight of a Fiat 500 1.4 930kgs. On balance I would probably stick with the standard springs of the 1.4 and fit the Koni FSDs so you still have a bit of 'comfort'
http://www.tmcmotorsport.com/Abarth_Suspension.aspx
The nearest that I've got to testing this was on the adaptive suspension in the 'new' MiTo QV which was exceptional. But I didn't like the 'clicking' sensation where the electronics were working and would possibly prefer a smarter mechanical shock.

How much would a 500 Abarth cost ? This would have the economy of a 500 1.4 if driven sensibly and the standard suspension at 1035kg rides better than a standard 500 1.4. T-jet engine is a very impressive engine.
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Last edited by loveshandbags; 05-07-2012 at 13:29. Reason: A500 maybe but...
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Old 05-07-2012   #5
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Durukan hi get the 1.4 on 15 inch rims.
The suspension is infinitely better!
I sat in a 1.4 2009 and i thought it was a completely different car.
Turning circle still a joke but at least you get to practice your three point turns = )
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Old 05-07-2012   #6
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Re: 2nd 500 pls help me decide

Quote Originally Posted by ahmett View Post
Durukan hi get the 1.4 on 15 inch rims.
The suspension is infinitely better!
I sat in a 1.4 2009 and i thought it was a completely different car.
Turning circle still a joke but at least you get to practice your three point turns = )
Have you driven a pre 2010 1.4 and a post 2010 1.4 to compare the differences ?
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Old 05-07-2012   #7
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Re: 2nd 500 pls help me decide

Quote Originally Posted by loveshandbags View Post
Have you driven a pre 2010 1.4 and a post 2010 1.4 to compare the differences ?


No but i was a passenger in the 1.4 pre 2010 so i immediately noticed the different suspension when going over the bumps.
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Old 05-07-2012   #8
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Re: 2nd 500 pls help me decide

Quote Originally Posted by ahmett View Post
No but i was a passenger in the 1.4 pre 2010 so i immediately noticed the different suspension when going over the bumps.
That doesn't count.
Don't doubt for a moment that it's better.
TBH the 1.4 with S/S and the new suspension are not all that common. None have been sold here and they're not too bad on the emission figures at 135grs/km.

Quote Originally Posted by durukan View Post
I've been enjoying my 2009 1.4 sport very much. I decided to sell it and buy 2012 500C Lounge.
Can you confirm if you bought a 1.2 in the 500c ?
Are you looking to go back to another 'tin top' ?
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Old 06-07-2012   #9
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Re: 2nd 500 pls help me decide

Quote Originally Posted by loveshandbags View Post
Can you confirm if you bought a 1.2 in the 500c ?
Are you looking to go back to another 'tin top' ?
no I'm definetly going for the convertible this time. I also want those 16" alloys (not multispoke or 5 0-spoke, the one that looks like a star). My decision isn't final yet I think I'll wait for one more year if MY2013 will be different as you mentioned. I hope they don't change exterior too much, it's perfect as it is now. A little off topic but my biggest contradiction is that 500C with full spec is nearly the same price as a second hand mint condition 2011 Polo GTI I wish I could get both.
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Old 06-07-2012   #10
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Re: 2nd 500 pls help me decide

Quote Originally Posted by durukan View Post
no I'm definetly going for the convertible this time. I also want those 16" alloys (not multispoke or 5 0-spoke, the one that looks like a star). My decision isn't final yet I think I'll wait for one more year if MY2013 will be different as you mentioned. I hope they don't change exterior too much, it's perfect as it is now. A little off topic but my biggest contradiction is that 500C with full spec is nearly the same price as a second hand mint condition 2011 Polo GTI I wish I could get both.
You're probably referring to the 'Gucci' wheels which were originally exclusive on the 500c.
Unlikely that there will be a 1.4 on the 2013 model.
Can't see the exterior being changed on the 2013 model. If you look at the North American model it might give you some indication. Reckon there will be a 'Sports' model like the one that the US have but IIRC it's not available on the 'c' model. From a discussion before about modifying a Chinese / HK American sourced 500 it was not able to take the Abarth kit off the European model so the body shape is slightly different but not noticeable in the pictures.
2013 model will have a better suspension with more travel. Dampers will probably be the same quality as the current ones.
VW Polo GTI sounds tempting but if it has the 1.4 twin charger engine it has had a heap of problems.
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Old 06-07-2012   #11
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Re: 2nd 500 pls help me decide

I think I should wait for 2013 MY 500C since it's only 2 months away. maybe twinairs will arrive next year, they dont give out any information yet, otherwise I'll go for 1.2 Lounge. Thank you all for your help.
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