I noticed a small amount of weeping from the clutch master cylinder today (photo attached). This may have been going on for some time - I only spotted this because I was taking some pictures to help someone over on the Panda forum. If so, it's only a small seep (for now), as there's no evidence of any hydraulic fluid on the carpet & the level hasn't dropped since flushing the system three months ago. I've wiped it off & will be monitoring closely.

I'd be grateful to anyone who could check their own clutch master for similar signs of leakage & report back. Look at the bulkhead inside the driver's footwell, just behind the bottom of the clutch pedal - it's quite low down. I managed by kneeling on a board outside the car with the door wide open, but some recent experience playing "Twister" might help you get in the right position to spot this - and a torch is helpful too.

It's actually easier to photograph it than to see it directly.

jrkitching said:

I noticed a small amount of weeping from the clutch master cylinder today (photo attached). This may have been going on for some time - I only spotted this because I was taking some pictures to help someone over on the Panda forum. If so, it's only a small seep (for now), as there's no evidence of any hydraulic fluid on the carpet & the level hasn't dropped since flushing the system three months ago. I've wiped it off & will be monitoring closely.

I'd be grateful to anyone who could check their own clutch master for similar signs of leakage & report back. Look at the bulkhead inside the driver's footwell, just behind the bottom of the clutch pedal - it's quite low down. I managed by kneeling on a board outside the car with the door wide open, but some recent experience playing "Twister" might help you get in the right position to spot this - and a torch is helpful too.

It's actually easier to photograph it than to see it directly.

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Since you changed the fluid on your 500 could that have caused the little seep ?
Came aross a contribution on fiat.co.uk of a planned modification in relation to vibration on the clutch hydraulics. This manifested itself on the conversion from LHD to RHD and a part that was put into the Panda was not homologated for the 500. Probably totally un-related.
Is it the 'norm' to change clutch fluid at 2 years or is it something that is only checked with a change possibly every 5 years. Did read that the 'water contamination' isn't really an issue except but it is susceptible to freezing.
Also can you explain the 'carpet'
You don't by any chance bring the car into the Living room.

Mine did this on the second or third day of ownership then leaked out everywhere. AA, back to dealer, replaced the system. It was a known issue on early 1.4's.

Mine was replaced last week for the very same.

loveshandbags said:

Since you changed the fluid on your 500 could that have caused the little seep ?

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I suppose this might be possible if you pressure bleed the system, but since I vacuum bled it, I really can't see how.

loveshandbags said:

Is it the 'norm' to change clutch fluid at 2 years or is it something that is only checked with a change possibly every 5 years. Did read that the 'water contamination' isn't really an issue except but it is susceptible to freezing.

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Hydraulic fluid generally has a service life of 2 years. Water contamination can lead to corrosion of the steel components, particularly the pistons, leading to premature seal failure. The clutch hydraulics actually live a harder life than the brakes - in normal driving, you use the clutch more frequently, plus you're moving the pistons the whole length of travel every time you use it.

Also, there's much less fluid capacity in the clutch system than the brakes, so the relative effect of a fixed amount of contamination is proportionately greater.

loveshandbags said:

Also can you explain the 'carpet'
You don't by any chance bring the car into the Living room.

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Any drips from the master cylinder will fall straight onto the carpet in the footwell.

There's a few posts on the Panda forums from folks who've had clutch masters give up the ghost, so it's not an unknown issue. It'd be useful to know if anyone else is experiencing the same thing on their 500 - it's only a tiny seep & unless you specifically look for it, it's unlikely you'd notice anything at this stage.

At this point, I've wiped up the leakage & am keeping a close eye on things. At least the master cylinder looks like an easy swap if the worst happens.

If anyone knows a source for replacement seals, I'd be most grateful. I've had a quick look online, but thus far have only been able to source replacement seals & pistons for the brake calipers.

UPDATE: Have just been out to check the Panda, which has now covered twice the mileage & had exactly the same fluid change, and it's absolutely fine. FIAT OEM part quality.... grrrr:bang::bang::bang:

jrkitching said:

Any drips from the master cylinder will fall straight onto the carpet in the footwell.

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I forgot that the 'seep' was inside in the car. I was jesting a little.

jrkitching said:

Hydraulic fluid generally has a service life of 2 years. Water contamination can lead to corrosion of the steel components, particularly the pistons, leading to premature seal failure. The clutch hydraulics actually live a harder life than the brakes - in normal driving, you use the clutch more frequently, plus you're moving the pistons the whole length of travel every time you use it.

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After the 'trouble' I had getting the brake fluid changed in the last 500 (2.5yrs) and the recent purchase (3yrs) it's hard to visualise the re-action from 'Fiat' on changing the Clutch fluid. Don't remember seeing anything in the service schedule.
For the brake fluid one of the key benefits was a better 'brake pedal' - a few 'mountain runs' can put it to the test.
But I can see the benefits for changing in the same way as the brake fluid to reduce corrosion. Another one for the 'To do' list.:bang:

Hi, did any more fluid ever seep from the master cylinder? I'm planning on bleeding my clutch soon as the fluid is very dark compared to that in the brake reservoir, do you recommend using a vacuum bleeder? Oh, how long can I leave the battery out of the car before it causes problems?

staffordmike said:

Hi, did any more fluid ever seep from the master cylinder? I'm planning on bleeding my clutch soon as the fluid is very dark compared to that in the brake reservoir, do you recommend using a vacuum bleeder? Oh, how long can I leave the battery out of the car before it causes problems?

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Very dark fluid is a sure sign of significant water contamination, so changing the fluid now would be an excellent idea.

The clutch hydraulic system can be vacuum bled; this also reduces the risk of spraying fluid about. The master cylinder reservoir has a rather small capacity, so keep a close eye on fluid levels.

It's possible to do the job with the battery in situ if you don't mind working blind, but it helps considerably to remove the airbox. Take care when doing this as the breather attachment is rather fragile.

I've previously posted details of how to change the clutch fluid (with photos) here.

As you may recall, JR, my clutch master cylinder went just days inside the 3 yr warranty. Dealer replaced it thankfully - it does look fiddly for diy - how easy is it to access from the engine side?

snes said:

As you may recall, JR, my clutch master cylinder went just days inside the 3 yr warranty. Dealer replaced it thankfully - it does look fiddly for diy - how easy is it to access from the engine side?

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I haven't actually changed one, but the job looks straightforward. Two very easily accessible nuts on the engine side, and what looks like a ball & socket connection on the pedal. I suspect it would come off easily once the nuts were removed.

Going from memory (never a good idea) I can't recall getting that clear a view on my MJ.

But, if you do the job, I don't suppose you'd be kind enough to post one of your user guides on here?

Good luck!

snes said:

Going from memory (never a good idea) I can't recall getting that clear a view on my MJ.

But, if you do the job, I don't suppose you'd be kind enough to post one of your user guides on here?

Good luck!

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The MJ clutch master is a different part & there could well be other bits of engine obstructing access.

Thus far, the cylinder has held up without giving any problems, but I guess one day it will need replacing. The whole clutch hydraulic system on RHD cars looks like an afterthought & I very much doubt it'll last the life of the car. Give me a cable clutch any day.

jrkitching said:

Give me a cable clutch any day.

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Nooooo! Hydraulic clutches are far more refined..