http://www.autoblog.it/post/27766/fiat-500-foto-spia-del-facelift

Thread title says it all. Don't quite see why they'd play around with the look of it as pretty much everyone likes it but it'll be interesting to see what if any changes are made.

yeah i read about this in Auto Express aswell...makes it a lot easier to see which models have the new engines and which have the old

I doubt they are doing it just to differentiate the twins, but it is possible. More probably the facelift will be applied to all of them.

The real changes are supposed to come in two years when it gets the new chassis being prepared for the US market; this uses very high strength steels, is better soundproofed, and is lighter.

I still don't see how they can maintain all the present engines when the twin85 covers pretty much all the bases by itself, and certainly will when the 105 joins it.

As for the 64hp, I'd expect this to be applied to the lighter chassis car, in this way it can maintain current performance with slightly less power.

Just a guess.

Ulpian said:

I still don't see how they can maintain all the present engines when the twin85 covers pretty much all the bases by itself, and certainly will when the 105 joins it.

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I don't think they will for long once the twin "gets its feet under the table" so to speak, although they'll have to watch the pricing. Price it close to the old engines initially and everyone will buy the twin.

Maxi, wasn't it you that posted a shot of one of the twin test cars, with the facelift/papered up front? I do wonder about thermal management with the new engines (presumably intercooled *and* a smaller, more stressed block to boot?)

But again, the 64 NA is only 5hp down on the current 1.2, and the twin is 10% lighter, so this might give it similar performance. However, in the 1.4 Multiairs the NA engines have poorer consumption than the turbos; I wonder if the twin will be any different?

Zanes, they'll get the ventilation sorted I'm sure, but there is a lot of space around the new engine from what I've seen in the show photos.

Also, if they price it too much higher than the current cars how can they reduce the price when the old engines go, or won't they?

Good point, although I've always been slightly wary of the amount of through-air, particularly when you consider there's an air con condenser in the lower black grill. Equally though, the abarths don't seem to struggle atm with their intercooler, although iirc. they've got a slightly enlarged vent above the number plate.

TBH, I can't see which way FIAT will go with the 500- economical chic city car or expensive status symbol. I do worry about the longevity of the production run at this rate though, illogically.

Edit: Just seen your last paragraph. Succintly makes the point I was dancing around!

Just remember that with a smaller engine comes lower fuel consumption and less heat I'm sure the new cars will be just fine for British conditions. The wifes Subaru has a fairly small water to air chargecooler which does a good job

Ulpian said:

I still don't see how they can maintain all the present engines when the twin85 covers pretty much all the bases by itself, and certainly will when the 105 joins it.

As for the 64hp, I'd expect this to be applied to the lighter chassis car, in this way it can maintain current performance with slightly less power.

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For months I've been reading posts from people quoting unofficial sources that the Twin will be released in 64 and 105 guises and have said nothing, knowing that it would just result in a pointless and petty argument until I could provide official proof that the 85 was being released first...

...now that it has I am pretty confident that the plan is to allow time for the car-buying public to get used to a sub-1,000cc engine being not only more economical but also more powerful before it eventually replaces both the current 1.2 and 1.4 16v (the 105 replacing the latter).

As for the 64, I would guess, like you, that that engine will be used to replace the current 1.1 (so not in the 500, at least not in the UK, or at least not yet) making the Twin the only petrol engine offered in all small FIAT...

I always like reading your posts Scrogg. I like the fact that 99% of the time you don't post what you think is going to happen, but what official sources have said will happen. It's nice to speculate, but some people take it too far.

I can't be doing with speculation (not that there's anything actually wrong with it, I just haven't got the time) but hopefully what I do post is of some use to at least some people...

I can confirm that the A500 is having a "major revision" in 2012. There's rumors that it's power (MTA engine) and 6 speed flappy paddle. You may find Fiat's 5 year plan very useful here:

http://www.fiatgroup.com/en-us/shai/iinfo/presentations/Documents/FGA_2010_2014-A_way_forward.pdf

Tells you all the models/revisions that are occurring in the next 5 years (including their take over of Chrysler!) It's quite hard to understand, but look carefully and you'll make sense of it. 2013 shows a new model under Small category, could this be the Abarth Coupe?

DraigFlag87 said:

I can confirm that the A500 is having a "major revision" in 2012. There's rumors that it's power (MTA engine) and 6 speed flappy paddle. You may find Fiat's 5 year plan very useful here:

http://www.fiatgroup.com/en-us/shai/iinfo/presentations/Documents/FGA_2010_2014-A_way_forward.pdf

Tells you all the models/revisions that are occurring in the next 5 years (including their take over of Chrysler!) It's quite hard to understand, but look carefully and you'll make sense of it. 2013 shows a new model under Small category, could this be the Abarth Coupe?

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Stop being wrong ffs. MTA is NOT Multiair!!!!!!!!!!!!

306maxi said:

Stop being wrong ffs. MTA is NOT Multiair!!!!!!!!!!!!

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So take the effing T out, big deal, you know what i mean...

DraigFlag87 said:

So take the effing T out, big deal, you know what i mean...

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Yes, but the person who reads the post of the person who knows everything about Abarth's doesn't and they'll think if they tick the MTA box they get a multiair engine. Not nice.

Speculation and misinformation bad m'kay?

Don't blame yourselves, blame Fiat and it's damned acronyms and vague publicity.

The trouble with Fiat's five year plan is that they keep modifying it. As a skeleton it's fine, but I wouldn't hold to everything it states. The facelift for the 500 this autumn is tiny and deals only with the twin engine. The change in 2012 deals with the new high-strength lightweight chassis being introduced first in the US next year; and the sales projections are all pie in the sky because the world's economy will totally mess that up. Watch growth and debt around Europe, and the world, and see what that does to projected car sales. Then factor in the price of fuel.

Interesting times

But; I would hope that the 500 gets the integrated sat nav this autumn. That would be a real bonus.

Ulpian said:

But; I would hope that the 500 gets the integrated sat nav this autumn. That would be a real bonus.

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There's no space in the dash for it without restyling the interior.

You can get Abarth SAT NAV, but it's not integrated, and from what i hear, it's not that great either...

DraigFlag87 said:

You can get Abarth SAT NAV, but it's not integrated, and from what i hear, it's not that great either...

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What does that have to do with a facelift?

306maxi said:

What does that have to do with a facelift?

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Seriously? Er see above?!