grimwau said:

You could ask for an examiner printout which should be able to show when the last reset was done. D4nny8oy will be able to explain much better if he pops in to read this thread.

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T14086 said:

Service sheet says, reset service light and check engine management system. To prove these have been done a copy of the printouts should be left on seat or handed over to customer, if they cannot be supplied then I would question if the service was carried out correctly.

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Thank you to you both. I think I will ask for the print out before they do the work - if they can prove the counter was reset 7,000 miles ago, or on the date of the last service, then I will hand over the cash and be done with it, they have done their job and even if the oil needs changing frequently, I dont think its fair to blame them (providing they've used the correct oil etc). I guess if the report shows that counter wasn't reset at the last service then they should be providing the oil change FOC.

Does that sound reasonable?

Only thing is they can't fit the car in until next wednesday, and seem to think its reasonable to do ~500 miles in between now and then. So I'm thinking about trying to book it in elsewhere to get it done quicker.

My understanding is that the flashing is a 'pre warning', I think I was advised that I could do 1000 miles before the light comes on constant.

Cheers

D

I see, that makes sense as to why they have said its safe to drive.

A more local dealer have offered to do the same work for £20 less (£30 less when you include the £10 surcharge the original dealer wanted for insuring me on their courtesy car) and they can do it earlier, so I'm going to get it done by them. I have asked for a print out of the counter before the oil change and counter reset, so if needed I will go back to the original dealer. My only thought is whether I should still get it done at the original dealer and try and get them to do the work for free anyway, since it seems pretty odd that its happening, but not really sure that is fair (or likely). [FONT=&quot][/FONT]

I would be asking why it needs so many oil changes, 4 in 21K is slightly mad.

Whilst I agree all dealers are not sloppy and in fact some are great, there are some totally rubbish one's and you tend to remember them more. Whilst they may all receive training, the differences is whether they use it or not and can put training into practice.

It happens with all makes of cars from the cheap to the very expensive.

JamesL said:

I see, that makes sense as to why they have said its safe to drive.

A more local dealer have offered to do the same work for £20 less (£30 less when you include the £10 surcharge the original dealer wanted for insuring me on their courtesy car) and they can do it earlier, so I'm going to get it done by them. I have asked for a print out of the counter before the oil change and counter reset, so if needed I will go back to the original dealer. My only thought is whether I should still get it done at the original dealer and try and get them to do the work for free anyway, since it seems pretty odd that its happening, but not really sure that is fair (or likely).

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The oil degradation parameters include the date when the last reset occured, so either way you can take the proof to the original Dealer and insist they reimburse the costs (if it proves they didn't reset the counter).

Oil change warning comes on approx 1k before it must be changed, after this point is passed, the ECU limits engine performance to persuade the owner to get it done (and limit damage from thinning oil). If the owner still doesn't get the oil changed, the ECU limits the performance even more (2000rpm rev limit IIRC).

poggy said:

I would be asking why it needs so many oil changes, 4 in 21K is slightly mad.

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Not really if the car is doing lots of short journeys and the DPF is regenerating a lot.

Cheers

D

I have another car with DPF and that sort of mileage is too low even with lot's of short journeys. It might be that the car is doing too many regenerations, which are not necessary.

I think there have been three or four updates to the DPF software since I've had mine in 08. The OP should check the service book for details of the updates done.

Cheers

D

D4nny8oy said:

The oil degradation parameters include the date when the last reset occured, so either way you can take the proof to the original Dealer and insist they reimburse the costs (if it proves they didn't reset the counter).

Oil change warning comes on approx 1k before it must be changed, after this point is passed, the ECU limits engine performance to persuade the owner to get it done (and limit damage from thinning oil). If the owner still doesn't get the oil changed, the ECU limits the performance even more (2000rpm rev limit IIRC).

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Thank you, again exactly what I was hoping to hear. I can't decide if its psychological or not, but it feels like the car is less revvy anyway - think that might be my head and right foot working in combo though!

Is there any way to check WHY the ECU thinks the oil has degraded so much? Is the ECU basing its oil change requirement on the number of regenerations (and so the assumed quality of the oil) or does it have a way of testing the actual quality, do you know?

poggy said:

I would be asking why it needs so many oil changes, 4 in 21K is slightly mad.

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I agree, it seems way over the top. I have had an oil change done each november and one now in between each service. I wonder if its down to my driving style - maybe I am too harsh on the engine. I take it easy when the car is cold and am getting about 54mpg combined, I'm not a boy racer and I don't go around wheel spinning and bouncing it off the limiter, but at the same time I don't drive like a granny.

rallycinq said:

Not really if the car is doing lots of short journeys and the DPF is regenerating a lot.

Cheers

D

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I've only ever seen the DPF regen light come on once. In terms of doing lots of short journey's, I drive 35 miles to work each morning, the car sits at work all day, then I drive it 25 miles back to my OH's, then later on the final 10 miles back to mine. The 10 miles is through town but not at rush hour. Yeah there is traffic on the way to work occaisionally, sometimes the m4 can be a carpark but the majority of times it is pretty smooth. If my commute it classed as 'stop/start' then I dread to think how many times 1.3MJ owners who live in London have had to have their oil changed? Or what sort of journey you'd need to do to have an acceptably 'smooth' journey?!

rallycinq said:

I think there have been three or four updates to the DPF software since I've had mine in 08. The OP should check the service book for details of the updates done.

Cheers

D

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I'm not sure the DPF updates have been listed out, but it has been once before specifically for a DPF update (tail end of last summer) and then went in again in November for the service (which I would expect to include applying all software updates?).

Thanks for the input guys. My only other thought was if the dealers who last serviced it put poor quality oil in it.

The quantity of oil on your dipstick suggests that the regen is happening OK.

The light doesn't come on during a normal regen, it comes on during an emeergency one where you can't shut down until complete. The latest update also scrolls a message across the dash display warning you not to shut down.

Regens only happen when the exhaust is hot enough to support it. Sitting in traffic is unlikely to make that happen.

When ou get to the dealers they are going to want to show you that the reset was done properly so they are going to be in the system anyway. It will also show the number of completed and partial regens, ask for a print out for your own peace of mind.

Cheers

D

poggy said:

I have another car with DPF and that sort of mileage is too low even with lot's of short journeys. It might be that the car is doing too many regenerations, which are not necessary.

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The problem with short journeys is interrupted regenerations, car starts to regenerate then its switches off while owners nips into newsagent etc

Doesn't the DPF have to start to fill up before it does it's regeneration though. It just seems that it is either trying to regenerate too often, i.e thinking it needs it or there is another issue.

poggy said:

Doesn't the DPF have to start to fill up before it does it's regeneration though. It just seems that it is either trying to regenerate too often, i.e thinking it needs it or there is another issue.

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Short journeys produce the most particles. I've seen a Suzuki DPF clog in a week of short journeys so badly that it wouldn't regen, needed replaced.

Cheers

D

Out of interest, re the 4 changes in 21k miles, are you having the engine flushed at the change? The engine should also be really properly hot before changing, to get as much of the oil out as possible.

pearce_jj said:

Out of interest, re the 4 changes in 21k miles, are you having the engine flushed at the change? The engine should also be really properly hot before changing, to get as much of the oil out as possible.

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If I'm honest, I don't know. I've not asked and they've not said. The oil changes which are part of the service I guess wouldn't include a flush. The 2 other changes are being done specifically because the car asked for it: therefore I assume it a flush was recommended by Fiat the dealer would have done one?

I imagine they don't do it as a matter of course. I've never bothered in the past when I've owned my own cars I've always figured the quantity of oil left in the block/sump is going to be so minimal that once you fill it back up again it is unlikely to make much difference on a daily used engine? I can appreciate the point for an engine that had the wrong oil or was badly treated though.

Technically you don't want the oil at 90 when you change it, just a decent temp so that the oil flows freely - I hope the dealer's tech's will know this too!!

rallycinq said:

Short journeys produce the most particles. I've seen a Suzuki DPF clog in a week of short journeys so badly that it wouldn't regen, needed replaced.

Cheers

D

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That would definitely be a "not fit for purpose" discussion with Suzuki.

Our DPF filter seems fine after more than month or more of short trips on the Nissan.

poggy said:

That would definitely be a "not fit for purpose" discussion with Suzuki.

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Doubt it, more like an incorrect buying decision.

Cheers

D

rallycinq said:

Doubt it, more like an incorrect buying decision.

Cheers

D

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Well perhaps a poor choice, true, but surely any car should not suffer a failure simply due to one week of short journeys?

JamesL said:

I assume it a flush was recommended by Fiat the dealer would have done one?

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My local dealer offered it, at a cost of course.

JamesL said:

I've never bothered in the past when I've owned my own cars I've always figured the quantity of oil left in the block/sump is going to be so minimal that once you fill it back up again it is unlikely to make much difference...

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The DPF makes all the difference, since it burns oil additives into ash, which are then recirculated by downstream EGR valve, if fitted to the MJ?, and this then polutes the oil. (Here's some info: http://www.fleetguard.com/pdfs/training/lube_training.pdf)

Do you know exactly what oil is being used by your dealer?

Just got the car back. The oil on the invoice is Selenia WR Pure Energy which I think is a 5W-30 (although not specified on the invoice the p/n is 'P L5/30' so I assume this is correct).

In terms of the oil change, the printout states the following:

Proced. num. 'Oil Change' 1
Oil degradation indicator 0%
Last 'Oil change' odometer 13135km
Dist. to next 'Oil change' 0km

If anyone could clarify this I would be really grateful. Why does it say proceeding number of oil change: 1 - does that mean it needs 1 oil change? Proceeding would mean the next oil change, as opposed to preceeding which would be the number of oil changes before this one?

Last oil change odometer: 13135km, or 8,144 miles. I assume this means this was the odometer reading at the last reset? Rather than the mileage done since the last oil change? If this is the odometer reading at the time of the last oil change, that means the counter wasnt reset at the service back in November, which means that I've just spent £90 on an oil change that potentially didnt need doing? Assuming the car calculates the need for an oil change based on the mileage since the last reset and the number of regenerations?

If anyone could clarify/offer their opinion I would be really grateful - at the moment it looks like I should go and have a word with the garage that last serviced the car.