Register Login
endrop - for all your online needs
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 21-01-2019   #1
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 430
Thanks: 12
Trader Rating: 0
BambinoClassic has donated!
Australia 
Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

We are moving in a couple of months and I will have a garage! So this old weird mongrel of a car has appeared on my radar, and I have an option to sell my 63bhp rover Mini Cooper and come back to my beloved 500s - sadly both cannot fit into my life.

It's not cheap, but it's an N! That someone has thoroughly disrespected, and spent a huge amount taking it as far from its original self as possible.

I would plan to take it back to classic, but I'm not sure if it's too far gone for me to tackle. Things that concern me:

- that engine! Owner says it was from a niki, and bored out to ? It looks like it would potentially run hot - I would be keen to put a more simple/original carb on it if possible... The owner claims it has a synchro box but he was unclear - if the engine is that much of a beast, would it likely require the synchro to run safely?

- I would want to, but can you go back to original 125 wheels and tyres on an engine like that? I assume it would have disc brake conversion and maybe needs to run big wheels


- the poor dash - so many gauges and switches - I know a whole new dash can be fitted, but maybe on that engine the gauges are a necessity. Steering column also looks modified - has the ignition in it?!

- THEY PUT ON ELECTRIC WINDOWS? I would be tempted to keep them for the novelty but seriously?...

Anyway, it's a small world of N cars, and I would love to rescue this one, but fear it could be a money pit and too far gone for me.

Any thoughts? And on the engine in particular?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FullSizeRender-4 copy.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	499.2 KB
ID:	196807   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-01-22 at 9.33.43 am.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	47.6 KB
ID:	196808  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-01-22 at 9.34.08 am.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	108.3 KB
ID:	196809   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2019-01-22 at 9.34.24 am.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	68.2 KB
ID:	196810  

__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by BambinoClassic; 22-01-2019 at 00:10.
BambinoClassic is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-01-2019   #2
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,874
Thanks: 141
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

With regard to the wheels--there are adaptors available that will allow you to fit '500' wheels onto 126 (98pcd) hubs. That would allow you to retain disc brakes but have authentic looking wheels on the car. Their main disadvantage is that by fitting the adaptors, you would move the wheels out a fair bit---you may have to have some original wheels 'banded' inwards a bit. If it has 12in wheels fitted on it now, I can see no reason why you can't go back to 500/early 126 wheels. If it has 13in wheels fitted, there is a fair chance that the brake calipers won't fit inside 12 in wheels
The engine---if you keep that monstrous device on it (the Weber) you MUST fit a support bracket,or you will break the rubber in the flange joint. It does look as if a fair bit of work has been done to the engine---looks like a "Nanni Ricambi" remote oil filter has been fitted. If the engine has a 'normal' head (as against a 'Panda 30'), you should be able to fit a 28IMB carb back on. The shrouding on the o/s of the engine is not 500 or 126--it is too square--looks like it is off a German specs engine (which I believe was the only version that had a fan housing with no air-filter and joined down the centre,along with a the small 'square' o/s housing)--it is rare and difficult to find. If the engine came out of a 'Nicki', there is a very good chance that the gearbox IS a 'synchro' box. Few people go to the trouble of fitting a 126 bell-housing to a '500' gear-box---just is not worth the hassle.
Thanks BambinoClassic thanked for this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

the hobbler is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-01-2019   #3
Patinated Peter
 
fiat500's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nairn
Posts: 4,517
Thanks: 216
Trader Rating: 0
fiat500 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

I think maybe that would be putting the desire to have an N in front of an appreciation of the qualities which make an N (or any other version of the car) so special.

You might get some of your money back if you stripped the car and offloaded the components, but would that make enough cash to pay for replacing with genuine N?

If there aren't many cars to choose from in your search area maybe that would justify shelling out a lot for a car that doesn't really suit your requirements? You appear to like originality and have a special interest in the N, but I suspect that if you widen your search parameters, for the same money you would be able to get an unmodified and well-sorted later car which allows you the immediate pleasure of driving and a more reasonable level of mechanical and cosmetic work.
Likes SDHXIII, BambinoClassic liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

fiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-01-2019   #4
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 430
Thanks: 12
Trader Rating: 0
BambinoClassic has donated!
Australia 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

Thanks for the above replies. Tom that's some impressive detective work from some pretty bad photos - my thoughts are that if the engine has too much going on, someone around here might even be happy to swap for a standard 126. Then I assume I can get my original wheels without too much hassle

It's a tough call - having some extra oomph and the synchro box is a big plus. But if it means modifying too much then it loses a lot of the appeal.

Having said that, the N that I'd be keen on is more than double the cost of this one (and around 30,000 British pounds at that). It has kept the original exterior but has some power in the engine bay - looks like the 125 on that one too, so perhaps no discs?

It's a daunting task to tackle this for sure... undoing so much!
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

BambinoClassic is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-01-2019   #5
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 704
Thanks: 32
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

Well it is an N or at least the doors are....
nothing is too far gone to restore back to original... other than cost....
It is the parts that are missing that are ultra rare that will cost money....
You could make it loo like an N fairly easily.. rear lights and new door panels and window mech/winders (same as a D).
Rear lights.... and then it would look ok.
No one would see the engine so leave it as would be my approach...
Knock up a console and move the instruments there then tidy the dash....
drive it and do bits as and when....
You could swap everything back anytime....
Why swap the engine day one if it is running fine...

so you can take your time...
Likes BambinoClassic liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Bigvtwin996 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-01-2019   #6
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 430
Thanks: 12
Trader Rating: 0
BambinoClassic has donated!
Australia 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

Sounds like a piece of cake!
Actually the enjoyable thing would be taking the time to do it.

Any welders here? I wonder if that dash can have the gauges removed and holes filled without too much anguish...

Of course the top would come off too
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

BambinoClassic is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-01-2019   #7
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Ripon
Posts: 646
Thanks: 28
Trader Rating: 0
Bleeding Knuckles has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

[QUOTE=BambinoClassic;4374786]
- that engine! Owner says it was from a niki, and bored out to ? It looks like it would potentially run hot.

HI BC, It looks like you have a Panda 30 head there and the thermostat housing is non-standard ie no thermostat assembly in the top???? It is unlike the German housing either and maybe a butchered 500 housing to fit??? It looks like you may have a cooler somewhere as there is an oil pipe running from the filter housing too??? Unless it is just there to pass oil directly back into the crankcase??? Is the fan belt on the wrong way round??? You have a late model rear valance too - the rear engine mount is wrong????
Ian.
Likes BambinoClassic liked this post
__________________
Si dice in Sicilia non c'e nulla di piu pericoloso di una Donna con fucile da caccia.

Abarth - Piccola ma Wicked

Last edited by Bleeding Knuckles; 22-01-2019 at 16:22.
Bleeding Knuckles is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-01-2019   #8
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 430
Thanks: 12
Trader Rating: 0
BambinoClassic has donated!
Australia 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

Thanks BK - egads seems like a real mishmash of parts in the back there - not too dissimilar to the mashup in the interior.
The good thing is it all comes out easily enough if you want it to. Whether or not Iím brave enough to take the gamble...

Thing is, body is pretty straight.
Price is not a huge amount more than a rusty F and I get the synchro box and that engine with it.

Could be fun. Could be disastrous, could find some new mock-up horror job at every turn!
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

BambinoClassic is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-01-2019   #9
Patinated Peter
 
fiat500's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nairn
Posts: 4,517
Thanks: 216
Trader Rating: 0
fiat500 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

I think I've got one wheel for you...my only piece of vintage gear.....it's a start...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	16759765703_dbbf9e521f_k.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	1.01 MB
ID:	196819  
Likes Bigvtwin996, BambinoClassic liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

fiat500 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 22-01-2019   #10
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 430
Thanks: 12
Trader Rating: 0
BambinoClassic has donated!
Australia 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

Quote Originally Posted by fiat500 View Post
I think I've got one wheel for you...my only piece of vintage gear.....it's a start...
Hehe one piece at a time
I'm warming to the idea of the task already....
Likes fiat500 liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

BambinoClassic is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 23-01-2019   #11
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 704
Thanks: 32
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

Quote Originally Posted by BambinoClassic View Post
Hehe one piece at a time
I'm warming to the idea of the task already....
Well you need to check the year etc.. coz there are two types of N wheels... lol
you could find a set of CMR wheels that would be period and nice..


Seriously... if the shell is solid...you have an N..
they are not making any more... It's RHD that's rare....

the dash.. some local guy could cut pieces to fill the holes then TIG them in so no splatter and you could probably fill and spray the dash without too much hassle..
not a fortune to re-trim the interior to original stds..
The rear lights will be the biggest expense..but no rush they may pop up at some local auto-jumble or some local free ad site.. so no rush as you will be looking at new paint to fit them...

As I said.. no one will know what engine... if it's reliable so why.. Yes i like originality.. but as Peter (Murp) says at least it's being driven and enjoyed...
it will take a long time to assemble all the parts to make it more original looking... but they can be cheap....
I brought an early N engine and gearbox for ....... well I have paid more for a nice meal out in a posh place... so stuff comes up. and more stuff is being remade...

if you decide to go for it.... take loads of pics underneath, front and rear, under the front... you don't want a show winner, but you need to know what has been changed and upgraded.. I suspect a lot... but sourcing some simple things may be affected by what has been done... have the rear wishbones been changed for later ones.... I presume it's running 25mm drive shafts, but what couplings...

my aim is to have two cars.. one very original and one.... that looks original but has the modern bits to make it more easy to run and drive without constant maintenance, LED lights where appropriate, 123 dizzy, disk brakes, 650 engine, syncro box... RnP steering, Lithium batteries relocated to under the rear seating area.. electric fuel pump inside the tank (original retained for "the look") Electronic speedo with no cable but replacement speed sensor on box (programmable so 100% accurate) but looks original because it will use the repro dials.. undecided about dual circuit brakes, but stainless flexi pipes. fully preped Ecoat and rustproofed shell.... add US spec exhaust heat ex-changer for heating and air booster for heating system.. hidden stereo and speakers....ahh did I mention heated windscreen (yes I made inquiries) heated seats- yes I have the kit,,,

we can all dream.....
Thanks BambinoClassic thanked for this post
Likes fiat500, lazylobster, BambinoClassic liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides


Last edited by Bigvtwin996; 23-01-2019 at 00:13.
Bigvtwin996 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 23-01-2019   #12
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 704
Thanks: 32
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

Quote Originally Posted by fiat500 View Post
I think I've got one wheel for you...my only piece of vintage gear.....it's a start...
does the new one have a name ?
Mitch?
Mitch and Murph ... could be a double act...

ooohh I have a later wheel or two.. could do a swap...
those later wheels are going up in price... I hope you know!!
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Bigvtwin996 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 23-01-2019   #13
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 430
Thanks: 12
Trader Rating: 0
BambinoClassic has donated!
Australia 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

I think Iím up there with your plans for two cars, at least having one but like your second oneÖ An original look in but with some of the more modern delicacies to make it an enjoyable ride
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

BambinoClassic is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 23-01-2019   #14
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 704
Thanks: 32
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

Quote Originally Posted by BambinoClassic View Post
I think Iím up there with your plans for two cars, at least having one but like your second oneÖ An original look in but with some of the more modern delicacies to make it an enjoyable ride
I can only think about doing the modern thing to an N because I acquired one for less than £1500, there isn't much of it, basically a rolling shell, no seats, engine/box and so much had been swapped...
If i didn't have it I would probably look at an F, as that's the design most people associate with a Fiat 500.... (would look again at a full sunroof though)
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Bigvtwin996 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 23-01-2019   #15
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: London-ish
Posts: 142
Thanks: 3
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Thoughts on this thoroughly mistreated N

Plenty of spare 500 N parts on ebay.it

Use google chrome web browser and it's translate tool and job done.

Deep pockets needed !

https://www.ebay.it/sch/i.html?_odkw...n&_sacat=18323
Likes BambinoClassic liked this post
__________________
Eat French. Dress British. Drive Italian!
1975 - 500R
1987 - 5000 QV
1996 - F355 Spider
2006 - Vauxhall Astra (mule)
lazylobster is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
your thoughts sam FIAT Boo Archives 3 05-01-2009 01:28
(S) Thoughts on this...... DamoSXI Grande Punto 12 29-10-2007 22:45
(G) any thoughts? wilharper2000 Panda (Classic) 2 02-06-2006 20:54
(T) Have a look at this, Your thoughts please !! Robracer Marea 20 21-04-2006 16:24
(T) Anyone got any thoughts on these....? sh33n Punto (Mk2/2b) 6 22-07-2004 23:12