Technical 650cc Engine with electronic ignition
- Thread starter Vitesse
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Technical 650cc Engine with electronic ignition
He virtually gave it to me Damian and a free unopened Haynes manual for a 126. I will see if I need the block and let you know.
Tony
If anyone is hunting for a 652ccs engine I have a complete one in my garage that was removed from a Fiat 126 that had less than 8,000 miles on the clock. I bought it in case I needed a replacement engine but I have now done a complete rebuild on another engine.
I paid £400 plus carriage for the engine so looking to recoup that.
I put together a sketch for my distributorless electronic ignition - it's for an uprated APE20 twin spark ignition module but shows how the wiring inter-relates with the various components. The wiring colours are non-std as I'm doing my own loom but the switched +ve wire shown is the same as the coil 'B' wire on a normal distributor set up so minimal re-wiring is required. The original Regulator and Generator wiring isn't affected.
I must add that the car is still in bits and I've not run the engine yet so no guarantees that the wiring works - although I get the twin sparks from the plugs when trialling it which is promising.
I must add that the car is still in bits and I've not run the engine yet so no guarantees that the wiring works - although I get the twin sparks from the plugs when trialling it which is promising.
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the hobbler
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Morning Tony;
I sadly don't have any experience of the 'Nanoplex' ignition system (although I am planning to fit this system with my eventual 695 engine), but I recently spent a day with a man who HAS got a lot of experience with the 'Nanoplex' system. On his tuned engines he takes the air-filter housing completely off, neatly covers the hole with a welded on plate and then mounts the coil on the cover plate--this leads to very short spark-plug leads which are well out of the way from hot exhaust pipes. I am not at liberty to put this gent's details into the public domain, but feel free to contact me and I will pass them on. He seems to have a lot of experience (and good ideas) tuning engines and restoring 500s.
I sadly don't have any experience of the 'Nanoplex' ignition system (although I am planning to fit this system with my eventual 695 engine), but I recently spent a day with a man who HAS got a lot of experience with the 'Nanoplex' system. On his tuned engines he takes the air-filter housing completely off, neatly covers the hole with a welded on plate and then mounts the coil on the cover plate--this leads to very short spark-plug leads which are well out of the way from hot exhaust pipes. I am not at liberty to put this gent's details into the public domain, but feel free to contact me and I will pass them on. He seems to have a lot of experience (and good ideas) tuning engines and restoring 500s.
That's really useful thanks for that. On the diagram you show a wire on pin 2 that seems to go nowhere. The diagram I have shows it with nothing but on the plug I have it has a wire on it, but I have traced it through the loom to see where it goes?
Did you have a cut off box with your set up? I believe it is not required.
Tony
Thanks for that.
Do you have the carb with the solenoid on your engine? It would seem that in 96 they added the solenoid to the carb to cut the fuel off to prevent overrun and added a catalytic converter to meet EU emission regulations. The was called the ELX.
As I have a solenoid, I guess there is quite a high chance that the exhaust has a catalytic converter????? It would explain why the engine looks in such good condition it is possible it was made as late as 2000.
Do you have the carb with the solenoid on your engine? It would seem that in 96 they added the solenoid to the carb to cut the fuel off to prevent overrun and added a catalytic converter to meet EU emission regulations. The was called the ELX.
As I have a solenoid, I guess there is quite a high chance that the exhaust has a catalytic converter????? It would explain why the engine looks in such good condition it is possible it was made as late as 2000.
Yes I do have the solenoid - it needs the same 12v switched supply as the ignition module system. All it does is close the fuel supply off when the ignition is turned off to prevent dieseling and over-running. When 12v is applied the solenoid opens to allow fuel into the carb - so no 12v = no fuel.
I don't have any closed loop lambda sensor control on my car and I don't think it was ever developed that far.
I don't have any closed loop lambda sensor control on my car and I don't think it was ever developed that far.
Yeah I think you are correct on the cat. I don't think it is fitted after all following a bit more googling. I did find a place in Germany selling a replacement exhaust the same as the one fitted on my engine, both pipes enter the back box in the same place. For the princely sum of £14.00!!!!!!!
Here is a better picture of the engine. You can see the "different" electronic ignition on the flywheel and the other bits of wiring sitting in front of the engine are the Nanoplex electronic ignition control box and the wasted spark coil, which is all I needed from the rear loom for it to run.
As you can see it is in pretty good condition. The only obvious problem is the sheared bolt holding the tin work on to the block up by the exhaust manifold.
As you can see it is in pretty good condition. The only obvious problem is the sheared bolt holding the tin work on to the block up by the exhaust manifold.
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Quick update on this. I wanted to bench test it to see what sort of condition the engine was in. First I had to extract the wiring needed for the electronic ignition, which I did with dunnah's help. So I made up a little test loom and tried it out and when turning over the engine from the starter motor I was getting a spark but it was rubbish, closer inspection revealed virtually non-existent spark plug gap, set them correctly and I was getting a really good spark now. Connected up the fuel lines and tried starting but no joy.
I was a bit mystified as to how to manually time this thing with the odd electronic ignition, every time I tried manually it didn't produce a spark. Further investigation sort of indicates the timing isn't adjustable it's just set.
Anyway on this 97 dated engine and gearbox it has a solenoid fitted to the carb that acts as a fuel cutoff when the ignition is switched off. So it needs a 12v supply in order to start the engine, it had this but normally you would expect a nice click from the solenoid as it operates. So a quick play around with it I managed to get it to work and produce the nice click I was expecting.
So today I thought I would have another go at starting it and success, this is literally the first attempt. Number 1 it does help to put the fuel pipe in the can first and remember to bolt the gearbox cover back on. I have no idea when it last ran but it all seems mechanically and electrically ok. Enjoy the arcing and sparking below!!!!! It is in gear as you can see in the video, as it is difficult to select neutral without all the gear linkage in place. You can also see on the block the lack of distributor.
[ame]http://youtu.be/8C1j2Rh8SXI[/ame]
I was a bit mystified as to how to manually time this thing with the odd electronic ignition, every time I tried manually it didn't produce a spark. Further investigation sort of indicates the timing isn't adjustable it's just set.
Anyway on this 97 dated engine and gearbox it has a solenoid fitted to the carb that acts as a fuel cutoff when the ignition is switched off. So it needs a 12v supply in order to start the engine, it had this but normally you would expect a nice click from the solenoid as it operates. So a quick play around with it I managed to get it to work and produce the nice click I was expecting.
So today I thought I would have another go at starting it and success, this is literally the first attempt. Number 1 it does help to put the fuel pipe in the can first and remember to bolt the gearbox cover back on. I have no idea when it last ran but it all seems mechanically and electrically ok. Enjoy the arcing and sparking below!!!!! It is in gear as you can see in the video, as it is difficult to select neutral without all the gear linkage in place. You can also see on the block the lack of distributor.
[ame]http://youtu.be/8C1j2Rh8SXI[/ame]
No it ran fine without it. Good to know about the timing not being adjustable which is what I thought. It makes it a pretty fool proof system, it did start to idle a lot easier and smoother when it had warmed up, but I didn't realise I had switched the camera off!!!
