Technical 650cc Upgrade: Looking for Opinions and Experiences

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Technical 650cc Upgrade: Looking for Opinions and Experiences

criceo

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Hello all,

I've been battling with trying to get my '72 500L to run properly for a while now, and, though it will occasionally cough into life, it still suffers hard starting and poor acceleration. Anyone interested can look at my previous posts to see the long list of repairs and replacement parts I have thrown at this thing to revive it. As such, I've considered just lumping in a tuned 650cc engine, or at least a 600cc engine, from FD Ricambi and a 5 speed gearbox, the latter being on the list even if I can revive the stock engine. I'm interested in hearing opinions on this from people who have done anything similar.

The five speed definitely sounds like a huge quality of life improvement, not having to floor it constantly to be at 55mph. As for the engine, I'd like to know if people have felt that there was enough of an improvement over the standard lump to warrant the cost of the upgrade. I'd also like to hear from anyone that has rebuild their 4 speed into a 5 speed with one of those kits as to the quality of said new parts.

As for the old engine and gearbox, I'll probably mount them, without damaging them of course, and put them on display in my living room. I'll make sure not to alter them, in case I ever decide to go back to stock.

After all is said and done, I may, with a little bit of hacking and welding, try making a small hole in the bottom of the frunk and fitting an electric fan and AC condenser. As for the compressor, I could go with an electric one also mounted in the frunk or try my hand at some fan belt bodging to modify the crank pulley and create a new bracket to hold a belt driven compressor. Of course, the latter would require running AC lines through the whole car, not that that would mean very long lines with such a small car. Anyway, that's for another day.

Again, opinions and experiences from people who have made, or at least attempted to make, the engine and gearbox modifications are very much wanted and appreciated.
 
Hi Criceo, I'm running a hot engine with an uprated clutch into a standard 126 gearbox modified with uprated crown wheel and pinion set from a 126 BIS gearbox, this raises the ratio from 8/39 to 9/39 and is more than suitable for cruising in traffic (60mph @ 4000k rpm) I also used the BIS gearbox extension housing that incorporates a reversing light switch for the same. The ratio change does effect the speedo, but it is minimal. The Haynes Manual is good for the job of gearbox stripping/assembly. At the moment I do not require a 5 speed mod and I note elsewhere that the mod itself can be fragile if not used as a 'cruising' gear. Your money your choice.
Ian.
 
Hi Criceo, I'm running a hot engine with an uprated clutch into a standard 126 gearbox modified with uprated crown wheel and pinion set from a 126 BIS gearbox, this raises the ratio from 8/39 to 9/39 and is more than suitable for cruising in traffic (60mph @ 4000k rpm) I also used the BIS gearbox extension housing that incorporates a reversing light switch for the same. The ratio change does effect the speedo, but it is minimal. The Haynes Manual is good for the job of gearbox stripping/assembly. At the moment I do not require a 5 speed mod and I note elsewhere that the mod itself can be fragile if not used as a 'cruising' gear. Your money your choice.
Ian.
As Ian (Bleeding Knuckles) mentions, the "5th" speed on a 5 speed box should only be used as a 'cruising' gear, and NOT an 'accelerating' gear---the shaft with the 5th gear on it is only supported at 1 end. It IS possible to purchase a gearbox already converted (but they are expensive) and you do need the engine to be well uprated in order to "pull" the 5th gear. As he also mentions that, a good and nowhere near expensive option, is to fit the diff from a '126 BIS'. Most of the '5th gear' kits require extensive engineering to fit---some come with instructions (usually in Italian!), some come with no instructions at all. If you would like to contact me direct ([email protected]), I will happily go through the pitfalls of fitting a '650' engine into a 500, as well as let you have a copy of my thoughts on the tuning of the '650'engine.
 
Hi Criceo, I'm running a hot engine with an uprated clutch into a standard 126 gearbox modified with uprated crown wheel and pinion set from a 126 BIS gearbox, this raises the ratio from 8/39 to 9/39 and is more than suitable for cruising in traffic (60mph @ 4000k rpm) I also used the BIS gearbox extension housing that incorporates a reversing light switch for the same. The ratio change does effect the speedo, but it is minimal. The Haynes Manual is good for the job of gearbox stripping/assembly. At the moment I do not require a 5 speed mod and I note elsewhere that the mod itself can be fragile if not used as a 'cruising' gear. Your money your choice.
Ian.
Hate to bring up a old thread.
But i have a question, as i am on the hunt for a lower ratio ring/pinion during the off months.

Does the BIS 9/39 gear set fit onto the bone stock F(non syncro) diff assembly? IIRC my car has the stock 8/41 ring& pinion. And i would like to get more speed before going with a 5speed kit.

I read that the D gearboxes have a different sized diameter differential housing assembly, and newer rings wont physically fit.
 
Hi BB, yes I believe the later crown wheel and pinion will fit, but why oh why go to the work of fitting and setting up the gearbox turning torque and backlash when you can obtain a synchro 126 box and fit it onto the 500 bell housing. In this configuration you will have the next stage of diff ratio at 8/39, but a slightly lower first gear ratio of 3.250 as against 3.700 in the 500 box. Drive shafts should be considered too. The BIS ratio of 9/39 may well be a little too much at times for the lower powered engine. I would council a complete strip and service if you obtain something second hand, with special attention to the first/reverse gear teeth for wear and the synchro clusters too.
Ian.
 
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