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Old 27-09-2006   #1
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whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

I found this on the net, going on about the mk1's having a better engine than the mk2 what do you think.
The 1301cc Turbo was replaced by the 1372cc unit in 1989 with the introduction of the Mk2 Uno Turbo. For some markets the 1301cc turbo was retained in the new shell until a catalysed version was available.

In the UK the Mk2 Uno T never achieved the same popularity as the Mk1. Its heavier, with a bigger engine capacity and turbo, but lacks the raw tuning potential in the high revving Mk1. All this changes when the mods start anyhow.

Mk1 v Mk2 Turbo Shootout

Mk1 Mk2
Engine 1301cc - 146A2 1372cc - 146A8
Turbo IHI RHB4 Garrett T1/T2
Box 5 speed manual 5 speed manual
Brakes

Front

Rear
-

240mm ventilated

227mm solid disc
-

240mm ventilated

227mm solid disc

Steering Uno quick rack Uno quick rack
Weight (Kerb) 845kg 925kg
Track

Front

Rear
-

1346mm

1309mm
-

1353mm

1309mm

Top Speed 122mph 128mph
0-60 8.3secs 8.3secs
Max Power 105bhp

@ 5750rpm
116bhp

@ 6000rpm

Max Torque 108 ft/lbs

@ 3200rpm
119ft/lbs

@ 3500rpm

Std. boost 0.6bar 0.7bar
Std. cam timing 0/40 30/10 14/44 36/6
Valve Lift (mm) 8 (in)/ 8 (ex) 8.8 (in )/ 9.5 (ex)
Valve Size (mm) 38 (in)/ 33 (ex) 36 (in)/ 33 (ex)


The Mk1 turbo is smaller and spins up faster with less lag. The Mk2 turbo can flow more air and is cheaper to have re built. The Mk1 delivers its turbo boost higher up the rev range while the Mk2 is more progressive - Mk2 turbo boost is present across more of the rev range. The Mk2 has 11bhp at max power over the Mk1 but the Mk 2 is also 80kg heavier. The Mk 1 torque curve also has a better mid range to it. Don't believe the top speed figures too much - especially if the car is slightly modified - as then a good one will pull to its red line in fifth (something the standard cars are reluctant to do). Orange-lining in fifth is more like 132mph and red lining 140mph! If you are modifying the engine but retaining many standard parts, the Mk1 has proved to be more reliable and can benefit from the Mk2s camshaft and higher valve lift. Best of the standard camshafts for the road is probably the Punto GT. While the standard X1/9 1498cc cam has the highest valve lift at 9.85(in) and 9.9(ex) its timing - 24/68 68/24 is different to the turbo cams and can deliver power advantages higher up the rev range. Reports from members (typically in motorsport applications) suggest the X1/9 camshaft may also be limiting valve/ engine life. Why does the 1.0 bar mod do more for the Mk1? Well the Mk2 is already nearer this point as it runs slightly higher boost as standard.
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Old 27-09-2006   #2
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

MK1 all the way,
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Old 28-09-2006   #3
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

MK1. The place where I live in has like about 5-10 UT MK1s all over the country only and I think noone here has ever seen a MK2.:P But MK1 for sure, absolutely one of the best tuning projects you can imagine.
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Old 28-09-2006   #4
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

prefer mk2's headlights just look too big on mk1's etc
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Old 28-09-2006   #5
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

Mk1 all the way, its proper old skool, something the mk2 may never be.

Tom
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Old 28-09-2006   #6
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

u cant say which ones better really as they are both awesome.

personally, i have the best of both worlds, mk2 car with mk1 rear end

also, mk2 are always quicker lol

Dunc
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Old 28-09-2006   #7
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

Yeah, the Mk2 front end is all smoke and mirrors anyway, as the bumper is larger and the bonnet rolls over more... so it's not actually any 'slimmer'. I found this out while planning a 'facelift'.

The Mk2 is a little more solid and refined in the interior - the doors always seem more robust, for example... and there's less road noise... but people like Dunc largely ignore these benefits, and people like me tend to find that a Stilo Abarth is more solid and refined again...

Drove my Uno Turbo yesterday and wow, shakes and rattles like I've never seen compared with the Stilo

My vote goes with the Mk1, by the way, as being the original and having the most essence of the Uno, not diluted by Tipo features... and I think that the Mk1 engine is stronger.

By the way, I have heard that you should not use a symmetrical camshaft (e.g. the X1/9's 24/68 68/24 timing) with a turbo, as it can lead to compressor surge.

-Alex

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Old 28-09-2006   #8
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

They're both great cars. In reality the last of the real Fiats, alongside the Cinquecento, Coupe, Barchetta, Tipo and Multipla in my opinion.

I'll probably offend other people on this site but Fiat nowadays has lost direction completely. I'm a car designer and worked in Centro Stile Fiat and Lancia for almost 5 years and things aren't going to get much better either. Does anyone on the planet really like the New Croma? That, much like a lot of models at Fiat, gets back-handed out to companies like ItalDesign resulting in bland design with bad proportions and totally lacking in character.

Anyway enough of that. Subjectivety is the key, and for me the Mk1 will always be the better car. It was designed by Giugiaro in the late 70's and made Fiat the largest automotive company in Europe by the late 80's. It was an advanced and innovative B-segment car that only Fiat could do well. The Turbo was a 'no expense spared' addition to the range evident in it's bespoke engine/carpets/seats/seatbelts/steering wheel/instruments/tailgate/bumper/wheels/interior and exterior trim etc.

The Mk2 was just a facelift by I.De.A at a time when Fiat was more restrained and costs more important, hence the MK2 Turbo resembling more a standard car with a few extras.

Matteo.
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Old 28-09-2006   #9
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

Quote Originally Posted by electricmice
I'm a car designer and worked in Centro Stile Fiat and Lancia for almost 5 years
That is impressive!
To think that we actually have an 'insider' on our forum. Obviously you will have signed confidentiality agreements

Quote Quote:
The Mk2 was just a facelift by I.De.A at a time when Fiat was more restrained and costs more important, hence the MK2 Turbo resembling more a standard car with a few extras.
Well considering that I.D.E.A. styled the Tipo, that certainly makes sense.
I have always felt that the Mk2 was not really a refinement of the Uno styling, but more a case of trying to make the Uno look like the Tipo. i.e. instead of capitalising on features like the dashboard and making it look more modern (imagine the original design but in soft materials and with fewer joins) it was a case of slapping in something more conventional.

Same goes for the rear tailgate, which although it may look superficially the same, is actually a very different profile that doesn't continue the line from the sides of the car (standard Mk1 tailgate had a fine line pressed in), instead having the high-tailed look of the Tipo and a central 'bar' for the handle...

Decisions like the relocating of the window-winder handles are surely hard to justify other than to give it a more conventional appearance (well, maybe they are easier to use... it was only one example)

The Mk2 Uno Turbo (getting back on topic) has very 'standard'-looking seats and trim (headlining etc.), almost in the Volkswagen mould of understated styling and good quality. It doesn't have that slightly zany feeling of the earlier Turbo (the weird vinyl with the square holes, the bright red carpet...)

-Alex
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Last edited by alexGS; 28-09-2006 at 14:27.
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Old 28-09-2006   #10
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

as much as i envy the rust free nature of mk2 ownership....lucky so and so's...
i love the idiosyncrasies of the mk1, and what it stood for on release, a totally fresh direction, with and engine block from the stone age.....
small, neat, cute, nimble, fast, the lights are great, if you think medieval "new edge", the whole front end is a flat blank with strategic chops to break it up, like most first editions/releases, its undiluted, and what a bunch of guys, deep in a workshop in fiatland, thought would be.......yeah that its....fun
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Old 28-09-2006   #11
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

Haven't quite worked out how to attach quotes yet. Any advice?

Anyway in response to you Alex thank you, and no it isn't that impressive, it turns very much into just another job after a while. In one way or another we all sign a confidentiality agreement that's part of our contracts, but there's always flexibility if you know what I mean. And anyway I left in March. Rather than hijack this thread I'll start one in a few days about caresign and see if anyone's interested.

Plus a few days ago you asked me about seats. I don't have any of the original neon red and black covers. They're lovely seats but fall apart if they're not looked after. The reason why Fiat changed them. Sorry. Will keep an eye out though.

Back to the subject. MkI or MkII? What it essentially comes down to is that the MkI is very stereotypically Italian. Flashes of red with a simple but crisp 80's design. The MkII with it's longer dimensions, Tipo inspired styling and mature interior is the more sophisticated approach. But then it's more powerful too which gives it a 'wolf in sheeps clothing' angle. And then there's the Punto GT with yet another step towards maturity but incased in a modern volume and package but still simple in aesthetics.

Then they dropped the turbo. The HGT. And as for the facelift of that model. But I've seen the new hot version of the Grande Punto. It's probably common knowledge anyway. A 1.6 16 valve turbo with I think 180bhp. The Rally's quite a lot faster though.

Matteo
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Old 28-09-2006   #12
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

That's 'car design' not 'caresign'. Sorry.
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Old 28-09-2006   #13
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

I adore the MK1 front! Its lovely Although I do really like the MK2 front too!

To be honest, even with the slightly bigger engine and more power, I always found the MK1 to be quicker. Even though I migh have just been imagining it due to the rough and ready style to the MK1. The MK2 definatly feels slightly better built, although by todays standards its awful heh. I prefer the dash on the MK1. The MK2 feels alot more plasticy inside.

I also found on the MK1 that there as very little turbo lag. Alot less than the MK2 even though it was probably by only a 10th of a second or so.

The MK1 feels raw, yet the MK2, although more powerful, feels slower and more refined!..

Its hard to call, but I think i prefered my MK1 over the MK2 for driving experience, but the MK2 wins over exterior style i think
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Old 28-09-2006   #14
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

The mk1's have a certain 80's feel about them, i love the headlineing, the red seat belts, the dash with all those guages and the switch boxs either side of the dash just an amazing fun car to drive...
The set up on the mk 1 was so well designed at the time, with fuel injection on a turbo, as oppossed to the r5 gtt which had a crapy carb .

Mk1's are just wicked little pocket rockets..
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Old 29-09-2006   #15
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Re: whats best mk1 or mk2 uno turbo

The Mk2 front, despite being no real slipper, and the deeper front bumper (and heavier weight pushing the suspension down a little), all contribute to a lower drag coefficient, I'm a firm believer of this helping the top speed a lot. It's common to see a modified 1.4 reach 140 mph but it's a bit more tricky to make a Mk1 do so... (the 72ccs of extra displacement must help the torque somewhat, though...)

One thing, though, is that the boost is 0.1 Bar higher in the 1.4, and the 1.4 has only 11bhp more than the 1.3...

If the 1.3 was set to 0.7Bar, like the 1.4, I'm sure there'd only be 3 or 4 bhp difference between them.

I don't like the interior of the Mk2, not really. I'm putting some golf turbo seats, recoloured in red/grey, in my Mk1 eventually, with mk2 doorcards retrimmed in red, and a mk2 dash, though, as the boxy look gets a little too "Novelty" at times... but I'm mk1 all the way, especially if it's a tight, quiet little'n.

One thing about rusty Unos and the differences of mk1/mk2... mk2s are much newer so they're bound to've been subjected to less cold/wind/ice age. I've been in a Mk2 that was rattly like a Mk1, or close enough, anyway.
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