Technical X230 2.8 TDI clutch

[Womo793]

Hi, the bite on my clutch is high on the pedal stroke, I trying to get an idea of how much it's got left. Done about 80k miles. The clutch is a cable operated pull type on a MG5T box. I have taken some pictures through the aperture in the bottom of the bell housing. Does anyone know if there is a wear indicator, and if it is shown in these pictures? Also, one pic shows the plug covering the end of the fork pivot pin. Is there a knack to getting the plug out? It's pretty inaccessible.

Regards

 

[bugsymike]

Hi, the bite on my clutch is high on the pedal stroke, I trying to get an idea of how much it's got left. Done about 80k miles. The clutch is a cable operated pull type on a MG5T box. I have taken some pictures through the aperture in the bottom of the bell housing. Does anyone know if there is a wear indicator, and if it is shown in these pictures? Also, one pic shows the plug covering the end of the fork pivot pin. Is there a knack to getting the plug out? It's pretty inaccessible.

Regards

Hi, Don't know if this will help as I don't know the age of your Ducato, but some years ago I did a clutch on a 2005. 2.8 Citroen Relay with front wheel drive (most of my dealings were with that engine was on rwd Ivecos) My point is there was a special tool to extract the pivot arm from the bell housing which then allowed you to remove the gearbox with the release bearing still in the centre of the clutch pressure plate which is where it sits after the first time you depress the pedal on a new clutch. At that time even the local Citroen Dealers didn't have the tool which meant (and it is not the way I would normally work) I had to prize the gearbox away from the engine once all bolts were removed using a crowbar, this obviously damaged the old clutch assembly that was being replaced anyway. I had previously explained the need with the customer. If you can obtain the extractor it will make life much easier.

 

[Womo793]

Thank you for sharing your experience. My van is 2000, I guess the Citroen would be the JTD compared to the TDI but the clutch/gearbox may be the same. The reason I wanted to look at the pivot pin is to see whether/how a tool would attach to it. I've come across a tool (image attached), which might be the tool you refer to? At present I'm just trying to get a feel for how much life is left in this clutch. I had a slightly older Renault Master before with the same engine, not sure about the gearbox, but the clutch was hydraulic (self adjusting?), but the point is the clutch (the original I think) was still going strong north of 160k miles. The Ducato doesn't feel like it has much left in it at 80k, which surprises me a bit.

 

[bugsymike]

Thank you for sharing your experience. My van is 2000, I guess the Citroen would be the JTD compared to the TDI but the clutch/gearbox may be the same. The reason I wanted to look at the pivot pin is to see whether/how a tool would attach to it. I've come across a tool (image attached), which might be the tool you refer to? At present I'm just trying to get a feel for how much life is left in this clutch. I had a slightly older Renault Master before with the same engine, not sure about the gearbox, but the clutch was hydraulic (self adjusting?), but the point is the clutch (the original I think) was still going strong north of 160k miles. The Ducato doesn't feel like it has much left in it at 80k, which surprises me a bit.

The tool does look like what I would expect, I assume there is a internal thread in the pivot shaft that you would screw firmly into and then use the rest of the tool to draw the shaft out allowing the release arm to collapse and making it able to remove the gearbox. I recall I was on my own laying on my back in the middle of winter lifting quite a heavy gearbox! I think they use the same Sofim 8140. series engine as the similar age Iveco's but with engine transverse so different sump arrangement etc. as on a slant. 80k not a lot, but depends on usage, motorways or stop start around town plus driver of course. As an apprentice, we had a lady school teacher who could burn a brand new Borg and Beck clutch out in 800 miles!

 

[cid]

The tool does look like what I would expect, I assume there is a internal thread in the pivot shaft that you would screw firmly into and then use the rest of the tool to draw the shaft out allowing the release arm to collapse and making it able to remove the gearbox. I recall I was on my own laying on my back in the middle of winter lifting quite a heavy gearbox! I think they use the same Sofim 8140. series engine as the similar age Iveco's but with engine transverse so different sump arrangement etc. as on a slant. 80k not a lot, but depends on usage, motorways or stop start around town plus driver of course. As an apprentice, we had a lady school teacher who could burn a brand new Borg and Beck clutch out in 800 miles!

 

[cid]

Hi bugsymike, I had my gearbox repaired last week during which they inspected the clutch and told me it needed replacing. They are a well trusted garage and do not do unnecessary work. My van is a 1996 Ducato 1.9t with 82k miles on the clock. Obviously, there was a bit of "We might as well do it whilst we're down here Mrs.Brown" but I think it's a reasonable indicator. I have owned the van for 15+ years. My biting point was quite high and the pedal very stiff. It is now a lot lower and the pedal a delight as it is now like driving a car. Problem with gearbox for info. purposes, wear on 2nd and 5th synchros.
and an internal oil seal. Hope this helps, Ian.

 

[cid]

Sorry Womo793, sent my reply to wrong person. cid

 

[Womo793]

Hi bugsymike, I had my gearbox repaired last week during which they inspected the clutch and told me it needed replacing. They are a well trusted garage and do not do unnecessary work. My van is a 1996 Ducato 1.9t with 82k miles on the clock. Obviously, there was a bit of "We might as well do it whilst we're down here Mrs.Brown" but I think it's a reasonable indicator. I have owned the van for 15+ years. My biting point was quite high and the pedal very stiff. It is now a lot lower and the pedal a delight as it is now like driving a car. Problem with gearbox for info. purposes, wear on 2nd and 5th synchros.
and an internal oil seal. Hope this helps, Ian.

It does indeed, it puts my experience into perspective. Maybe around the 80k mark is all that can be expected? In my case, I wouldn't say the clutch is stiff, it's just near the top of travel when it bites. It's good that you notice a positive difference. I've heard and read a bit about these synchros, I gather it's pretty important to use the right oil with regards to the yellow metal to help with their longevity?

I think two things which don't help the clutch in my case are that I'm lugging round a fairly hefty A Class (but under 3.5t), and I do have to change up and down a bit between 4th and 5th, as I think has been extensively written about before.

 

[Womo793]

For anyone interested, I've been looking on Eper, (why didn't I start there?) and I can answer my 2nd question myself now. What looked like a plug is the bush holding the end of the pivot pin.