Technical 2000 2.8 tdi Injection pump question

[Cboswell]

Good morning, all new member here.I have a question about the above injection pump regarding its removal. Do.
You have to align the engine before removal of the pump, reason i ask is that i see the timing belt pulley is separate so shouldn't lose its position and the pump end looks to have an alignment tooth for assembly. Any help appreciated. I need to remove as my solenoid is broken but won't budge so I need the pump on a bench.

 

[Greasytrucker]

I can’t confirm this but as a rule of thumb i find with non common rail engines you have to make sure the pump is locked in the correct position before removal. @Communicator or someone else familiar with this engine will be able to confirm this. Sorry I couldn’t be any more help

 

[Cboswell]

I can’t confirm this but as a rule of thumb i find with non common rail engines you have to make sure the pump is locked in the correct position before removal. @Communicator or someone else familiar with this engine will be able to confirm this. Sorry I couldn’t be any more help

Many thanks for your reply.And all replies are always helpful. I understand on these engines that the timing position is critical but from what I have read you can remove the pump without disturbing the main crankshaft to cam timing only the pump timing is effected and so long as the pump is reinserted to the same position as removed all is good. But I am not 100% sure. I know on other engines the pump is directly driven from the cam belt so removing requires removing the belt.

 

[jackwhoo]

@bugsymike
Hi, Mike you have hands on with this engine type?

 

[Communicator]

I am not fully familiar with the 2.8idTD, but I believe the pump driving wheel is fitted to the pump shaft via taper and keyway. I think that it would be impracticable to remove the pump without its gear wheel, and not disturbing the timing belt. Perhaps @bugsymike will confirm. If disturbing the belt, then the general recommendation is to replace, but I suspect that this has its roots in the time saved for a later replacement. Further logical thinking suggests that you do not need to line up the timing marks to replace the belt, what must be done is to preserve the relative positions of crankshaft, camshaft, and pump. You could achieve this by marking the belt and gears with tipex, so as to show the correct engagement. However it is not too difficult to line up the timing marks, so why not?

 

[bugsymike]

I am not fully familiar with the 2.8idTD, but I believe the pump driving wheel is fitted to the pump shaft via taper and keyway. I think that it would be impracticable to remove the pump without its gear wheel, and not disturbing the timing belt. Perhaps @bugsymike will confirm. If disturbing the belt, then the general recommendation is to replace, but I suspect that this has its roots in the time saved for a later replacement. Further logical thinking suggests that you do not need to line up the timing marks to replace the belt, what must be done is to preserve the relative positions of crankshaft, camshaft, and pump. You could achieve this by marking the belt and gears with tipex, so as to show the correct engagement. However it is not too difficult to line up the timing marks, so why not?

It's a while since I worked on one, but basically as @Communicator and @Greasytrucker mentions there is a bolt and plate at front top of injector pump that from memory if plate removed and bolt replaced it "should " lock the pump in the position removed, possibly allowing pulley to be separated and pump unbolted from engine.
Personally I try not to disturb pulley from shaft if at all possible so as to keep injection timing as before, just using cam belt timing marks. The reason is once injection point lost it involves C,Band D timing methods as photo so finding injection point on flywheel then suitable dial gauge in back of injector pump etc.
I did time the injection on a 2.8idTD engine that I rebuilt to fit in a boat by using "spill port " method like the old days and advanced it slightly along with other tweaks on pump and turbo to almost achieve the same performance as the 150Hp petrol V6 engine I replaced, however engine was on a bench at the time so easier to play with.
Personally I would do anything I could to remove the faulty solenoid in situ without disturbing anything unnecessary.
Further more you may need a special puller to remove pulley from the taper on pump.

 

[Cboswell]

It's a while since I worked on one, but basically as @Communicator and @Greasytrucker mentions there is a bolt and plate at front top of injector pump that from memory if plate removed and bolt replaced it "should " lock the pump in the position removed, possibly allowing pulley to be separated and pump unbolted from engine.
Personally I try not to disturb pulley from shaft if at all possible so as to keep injection timing as before, just using cam belt timing marks. The reason is once injection point lost it involves C,Band D timing methods as photo so finding injection point on flywheel then suitable dial gauge in back of injector pump etc.
I did time the injection on a 2.8idTD engine that I rebuilt to fit in a boat by using "spill port " method like the old days and advanced it slightly along with other tweaks on pump and turbo to almost achieve the same performance as the 150Hp petrol V6 engine I replaced, however engine was on a bench at the time so easier to play with.
Personally I would do anything I could to remove the faulty solenoid in situ without disturbing anything unnecessary.
Further more you may need a special puller to remove pulley from the taper on pump.

Great reply thank you, I don't plan on removing the pully but I think the pump needs to be on a bench, just don't have the room to get a good purchase on the solenoid, tried heat and tapping with a chisel but it's solid. I might try removing the radiator and bumper which may give a better angle. Pump removal will be my last resort but from what I have read it lola like it comes out without messing with the belt.

 

[bugsymike]

Great reply thank you, I don't plan on removing the pully but I think the pump needs to be on a bench, just don't have the room to get a good purchase on the solenoid, tried heat and tapping with a chisel but it's solid. I might try removing the radiator and bumper which may give a better angle. Pump removal will be my last resort but from what I have read it lola like it comes out without messing with the belt.

Not sure how much room on Ducato as most of mine were that engine in Iveco Dailys, but if you got to the point of cam belt off etc. another alternative is to remove the whole pump/oil cooler/filter/power steering block unit from side of engine once all ancillary items removed it may be possible to slide off the large O ringed tubes after undoing the six long bolts and dropping the entire unit off side of engine, if enough clearance, still a lot of work though.
I assume a socket will not fit due to clearance same as a ring spanner, how about a socket drive crows foot open end if a good tight fit?
A bit of a bodge, but is it possible to grind a side off a good socket so that it just clears the pump whilst fitting the solenoid, the loss of a socket may be worth it if it allowed a good turning pressure, even an old impact socket?

 

[jackwhoo]

Search forum for 8140 sofim

Find video I posted it shows injection pump being slid out of accessory housing showing spline drive. Approx 6min 45sec

 

[jackwhoo]

In fact there is video

 

[jackwhoo]

(-:

 

[bugsymike]

Now you know why there are few Sofim engines still around in the UK.

 

[Cboswell]

Search forum for 8140 sofim

Find video I posted it shows injection pump being slid out of accessory housing showing spline drive. Approx 6min 45sec

Thanks for the information, the video answers my question nicely. Don't want to remove it and it will be the last straw. If I can get a good purchase on the dam solenoid all should be good.