Technical Fiat ducato x230 rear fog lights

[Pete3467]

Hi all wonder if anyone could throw any light have a Fiat x230 no fog lights checked fuse good checked switch illuminates fog on dash grey and yellow wire now there’s 2 grey and yellows coming off switch which I would have thought 2nd goes to a relay which for the hell of me I can’t find can anybody throw any light on this please
Tia

 

[Communicator]

I do not like Tia. Please post resolution for the benefit of others.

I have spent some time extracting, and adding some annotations to attached diagram. Please confirm that it matches your the wiring on your vehicle. I do not think that you there is a relay in the rear foglight circuit. The diagram confirms this.

 

[airwave]

I do not think that you there is a relay in the rear foglight circuit.

Hmmm , i'm sorry @Communicator , but i'm gonna have to beg to differ , with that statement , as there is on mine . Now i will admit it's a motorhome , so it's possible it could have been added , but i don't think so . I found it by accident while trying to source an issue with my front fogs . Both of these had packed up , but i also found a broken wire lying next to the battery . It was while tracing this wire that it led me back under the dash to the relay cluster . Further tracing led me over to the fog light switches , though the one i was following did go to the rear fog , not the front . I had two relay's , identical and next to each other to choose from . I concluded this broken wire was likely an earth for the front fog so earthed it out , and the front fogs instantly illuminated . I'm still puzzled as to why they led the earth , from the dash to the engine bay , but i can tell you , it ent now .
This followed on from a fault i had previously had with my wiper park not working . To my mind , the most likely reason , would be a faulty relay , yet the circuit diagram didn't show one . Long story short i did find one , on the firewall in the engine compartment , and since then , i've come to not trust the wiring schematics too closely , as they only show major parts .
Now as this is a imported German conversion , i will concede this could be a modification , but i really don't think so . The switch is standard , and the rear fog wiring appears included in the loom . The front fog wiring is not so here it is possibly an added circuit . Thirdly , the relay , and holder are the same type and make as those for the headlight are , which are highly likely to be standard . However a 21w bulb only draws around 2 amps , which really doesn't warrant a relay , but my van has two , actually during conversion for use in this country it acquired a third , but i won't go into that . Even at 4 amps , it still quite low power , yet there is a relay .
Okay so where is the relay cluster , It's behind the lower dash panel , on the passenger side . Take the lower passenger panel off , and you should see your relay bank right in front of you , directly below the fuse box .
I'm gonna try something here ; fingers crossed

Yes . Okay , well over on the far right side , about mid way up , you should see two small black boxes , with circuit patterns on them . The left hand one is my actual rear fog relay , the other is my front fog relay . It may look a little confusing , because i marked the fog relays with decals for future reference , and the decal you can see is over the second relay (front fog) , but this was not the point of the photo , so its all at an angle . I have identified the headlight relays , there are four black , easy to spot , as they are all grouped together . Two dip , two main beam , and one i suspect of being the indicator relay . The power rating is the clue there , but there are several more i've yet to identify . I can't remember the ratings on the relays you're interested in , and i just closed my dash up . I think it's 20 amps , but can't swear to it . Oh and just in case you've not realised , my van is a left hooker .

 

[Communicator]

Hmmm , i'm sorry @Communicator , but i'm gonna have to beg to differ , with that statement , as there is on mine . Now i will admit it's a motorhome , so it's possible it could have been added , but i don't think so . I found it by accident while trying to source an issue with my front fogs . Both of these had packed up , but i also found a broken wire lying next to the battery . It was while tracing this wire that it led me back under the dash to the relay cluster . Further tracing led me over to the fog light switches , though the one i was following did go to the rear fog , not the front . I had two relay's , identical and next to each other to choose from . I concluded this broken wire was likely an earth for the front fog so earthed it out , and the front fogs instantly illuminated . I'm still puzzled as to why they led the earth , from the dash to the engine bay , but i can tell you , it ent now .
This followed on from a fault i had previously had with my wiper park not working . To my mind , the most likely reason , would be a faulty relay , yet the circuit diagram didn't show one . Long story short i did find one , on the firewall in the engine compartment , and since then , i've come to not trust the wiring schematics too closely , as they only show major parts .
Now as this is a imported German conversion , i will concede this could be a modification , but i really don't think so . The switch is standard , and the rear fog wiring appears included in the loom . The front fog wiring is not so here it is possibly an added circuit . Thirdly , the relay , and holder are the same type and make as those for the headlight are , which are highly likely to be standard . However a 21w bulb only draws around 2 amps , which really doesn't warrant a relay , but my van has two , actually during conversion for use in this country it acquired a third , but i won't go into that . Even at 4 amps , it still quite low power , yet there is a relay .
Okay so where is the relay cluster , It's behind the lower dash panel , on the passenger side . Take the lower passenger panel off , and you should see your relay bank right in front of you , directly below the fuse box .
I'm gonna try something here ; fingers crossed

View attachment 466286

Yes . Okay , well over on the far right side , about mid way up , you should see two small black boxes , with circuit patterns on them . The left hand one is my actual rear fog relay , the other is my front fog relay . It may look a little confusing , because i marked the fog relays with decals for future reference , and the decal you can see is over the second relay (front fog) , but this was not the point of the photo , so its all at an angle . I have identified the headlight relays , there are four black , easy to spot , as they are all grouped together . Two dip , two main beam , and one i suspect of being the indicator relay . The power rating is the clue there , but there are several more i've yet to identify . I can't remember the ratings on the relays you're interested in , and i just closed my dash up . I think it's 20 amps , but can't swear to it . Oh and just in case you've not realised , my van is a left hooker .

Thanks @airwave your reply is interesting, but I suspect that, as you yourself suggest some of the wiring on your vehicle is due to the conversion. I fully agree with your estimated current for 21W bulbs, which does not suggest the need for a relay. The use of four headlamp relays is also unusual, as two seems to be the nerm, but with separate fusing for the dipped beams.

On my x244, a relay was provided for optional front foglights which would be of a higher wattage. There is no discrete relay for the rear foglights., but the supply is routed via the "switch control panel", which is unique to the x244.

 

[airwave]

as you yourself suggest some of the wiring on your vehicle is due to the conversion

Yes , I hold my hands up , some of this wiring could well be a result of the conversion . The whole lighting system is basically custom , in that none of the series 2 clusters are used . Unlike the series 1 conversions where the headlights were actually used , i have four separate round headlights , with two used for dip , and an inner two forming the main beam function . This pair also contain a side light function . The indicators are below bumper height , and are also round , plus 2 foglights inboard of the indicators . These appear to be standard Fiat units , but are custom mounted . The vehicle being an A class motorhome , has a completely new front end , and this is in the form of a custom fibreglass moulding . To the side i have 4 marker lights including an upper marker combing front and rear lenses , plus 2 indicator repeaters on the front wings . To the rear are mounted , two custom clusters , combining stop , tail , indicator , with either fog or reversing light depending on left or right hand drive . However in addition to that cluster , i have a second pair of clusters mounted on a slide out bike rack lower down , basically mirroring the two upper clusters . Obviously this is to legalise the projection of the bike rack when extended . I have modified mine slightly , and levelled out the light functions , so now i have 2 fog lights mounted on the bike rack , and 2 reversing lights in the main upper clusters . Under the construction and uses act my vehicle is of an age where reversing light/s are not a legal requirement , but fog light/s are , with 1 at least mounted to the offside of the vehicle . Being an import , this is how my van acquired a third rear fog light . I would wager there is a similar law in the EU , so by showing one on each side , i'm fully compliant with the law in both countries .

There does appear to be an excess of relays , but the lighting system is also fuse loaded as well . There are 6 separate fuses , two for side lights left and right , one each for headlight dip , and the same for main beam . Plus partial dashboard illumination controlled by fuse 1 . On my vehicle this rises to 8 , when you start counting additions like fog's , front and rear .
As regards the Duke wiring , i can only call it , as i've seen it , and can't make any statements for any other series that i've never owned . However as you know , i've done some fairly extensive work on the electrical system of my series 2 , engine bay , dashboard , and rear clusters , and i've learnt hands on .
There is an old saying among mechanics that , Italians don't do electrics . Well personally speaking , i find that rather harsh , because from what i've seen the Germans are not much better . I've pulled out , and made good loads of bad practice , by way of various connections made into the original chassis wiring .

dash grey and yellow wire now there’s 2 grey and yellows coming off switch

Sorry Pete , i missed this in my original post , but it should be noted this is dependent on the type of switch fitted . Two different switches were fitted to the series 2 . A round kinda bubble switch , and a flat square switch . My van is fitted with the former , and on the back of the switch you should have 4 spade terminals . The top terminal , should be pure yellow and is the switch night illumination . On my van , this appears to be the norm throughout the whole dashboard , be it switch or heater illumination . The 2nd terminal directly below this is the illumination earth , usually brown , but could be black . Now the 3rd below that could be almost any colour , but is the live in , whereby the vertical terminal to the right of this stack , is your supply and again could be any colour . It is possible to reverse these two with the same effect , a break in the circuit or a switchable current .
One further note on the lighting is the fuses . The lighting circuits appear to be fused before they reach the switch . I found this out only about 3 weeks ago when a problem appeared with my lighting system that i didn't understand . Turn the ignition off and the lighting circuit is completely dead , unlike the British system where the lighting circuit remains active . However fog light circuits will remain dead unless the minimum of dipped beam is selected . There is no power to the switch , though i have since discovered my front fogs are wired differently , and mine are active , on just the sidelights .