Technical won't start - HELP!

[Noggin500]

Hi all,

I'm after some advice.
story is: as i was driving home from work my '92 panda lost power and then the engine cut out. now he won't start I had something similar happen before when his distributor cap fell off, so i checked that straight away and it was fine. also thought possibly head gasket, but he didn't overheat and the oil looks fine (no emulsion etc.)

i've checked & adjusted spark plug gaps, checked points - all fine. i've also checked fuel jets - all fine.
he turns over but won't start. he gets to the point where he would normally start.... and then doesn't. it's difficult to describe... he just sort of cuts out

i've tried everything i can think of :bang: has anyone got any thoughts/ideas???

thanks in advance

 

[pandamaniac]

Has the timing belt gone?
Do you have a spark at the plugs?

 

[allen fletcher]

check petrol pump if it pumps petrol and have a spark rest is history. chack also elec supply to the valve at front of carb and is wire still attached if its not you will never start the car!

 

[firstcar-Y10]

sounds stupid but you'll kick yourself if you don't check.... fuel gauge work OK?...
also for info, with it being '92, carb or injection? you say you've cleaned jets so sounds carb but just to aid the boffins postulating theories.
for my guesswork, a sudden death like that sounds more electrical than fuel (unless it is the cambelt). As suggested above check for a spark, if not, condenser/amplifier module (depending on dizzy) failing might be one to cause a sudden stoppage like with no visible signs.
Andrew.

 

[Noggin500]

thanks for the replies

he's got a good spark at the plugs. i've checked the timing belt which looks ok. his petrol pump definitley works. haven't checked elec supply though - thanks for the suggestion!

i'm pretty sure the fuel guage works (he seems to have about the right amount of petrol for miles covered since last filled....)

he's got a carburettor, and he's got points (just for info cos i think some of the other 92 models have got an ingnition module) and they look good too.

need to check cambelt and condensor.
it's just frustrating cos everything i try seems normal but he won't start (grrr)

 

[Chas Uno]

Have you checked the plugs immediately after trying to start the car? If the electrodes are wet then there's a good chance you have an ignition problem. If they're dry then it could be fuel starvation.

Is the spark strong? If it's weak then possibly a failing condensor.

Double check that you do actually have fuel in the tank. If the power suddenly fades and then the engine stops then it could be something simple like you've run out of fuel...

Good luck!

 

[panda1408]

Double check that you do actually have fuel in the tank. If the power suddenly fades and then the engine stops then it could be something simple like you've run out of fuel...

Yes definately make sure there is fuel, I made this mistake with my 750. Went to start it after it had been sitting for a while and it wouldn't so I spent ages checking everything only to realise that it had no fuel in it

 

[CLXCraig]

i would say lack of fuel to engine. carbed pandas had manual pumps off controled by the cam didint they?perhaps the is fuel being pumped to this regulator bit, but not to the carb? perhaps a bit of crap got sucked up and into filter blocking the system completly

 

[panda1408]

Yes they have the manual pump, best way to check the pump is ok is to take the pipe off the pump where it goes to the carb and turn the engine over and see if petrol comes out. Also check if there is fuel in the filter.

 

[CLXCraig]

Yes they have the manual pump, best way to check the pump is ok is to take the pipe off the pump where it goes to the carb and turn the engine over and see if petrol comes out. Also check if there is fuel in the filter.

wont be able to do that if engine dont turn over. pump is run of a pin that sits on one of the cams through the head.

Take pipe off that goes into this pump and check when ignition is on. pump should pirme and send fuel up to this point. if no fuel comes out. you either got a big hole, which i doubt, or the filter needs replacing.

hopefully it's not to much of a drama

 

[Chas Uno]

wont be able to do that if engine dont turn over. pump is run of a pin that sits on one of the cams through the head.

Take pipe off that goes into this pump and check when ignition is on. pump should pirme and send fuel up to this point. if no fuel comes out. you either got a big hole, which i doubt, or the filter needs replacing.

hopefully it's not to much of a drama

Mechanical fuel pump needs the camshaft to be turning to draw fuel up from the fuel tank. Just turning the ignition on won't do anything as there's no pump in the tank to prime/ send fuel up to the mechnical pump. Or do you mean gravity will push fuel up from the tank to the fuel pump? If so, you won't need the ignition on for this!

 

[CLXCraig]

ok, i though the was a weaker sender unit that would supply the fuel, then this take over.

that must been there is just the fuel filter left...

 

[panda1408]

Mechanical fuel pump needs the camshaft to be turning to draw fuel up from the fuel tank. Just turning the ignition on won't do anything as there's no pump in the tank to prime/ send fuel up to the mechnical pump. Or do you mean gravity will push fuel up from the tank to the fuel pump? If so, you won't need the ignition on for this!

:yeahthat: There are no electric fuel pumps on carb'd Pandas, also Noggin500 says the engine does turn over so the pump can be tested.

 

[lightweightmick]

If you got a spark here's a simple test:
Remove air filter - dribble a little petrol into carb - if she fires at all, your fuel supply is down. Could be simple like float stuck - don't be fooled by fuel coming out of pump - if a valve in the pump is faulty it may chuck a bit out but not sufficient - it needs to come out with some force. I've had the symptoms you describe in the past. On Bedford CF I discovered that the spring in the pump lifted the fuel - not the arm (can't say for the Panda as I've not had this problem with 'em) - took ages to find this fault as it would fire up eventually, but as it got worse, I stripped pump and found spring has rusted through and was unable to lift fuel with sufficient pressure. I also had a similar problem with (dare I say it) a Skoda (this was down to a faulty valve that sometimes worked and sometimes didn't...)
It's unlikely to be a blocked supply to pump I would say. Have you disconnected feed and blown down pipe? Can you hear bubbling at tank?

At least the above simple test will put you in the right department.
cheers
lwm

 

[don.gilkes]

I have the same problem Noggin did you mange to fix it and if so how?

 

[VmanC]

I have the same problem Noggin did you mange to fix it and if so how?

Have you been through all of the checks above? If so, one thing not mentioned is wrong fuel in car, have you filled up recently?

 

[don.gilkes]

I put some 98Ron Total petrol in, but this has all been drained off and replaced with usual 95Ron. I am investiagating the failure of the solenoid in the idle cut off valve by getting a bolt to seal the hole where the solenoid sits and see if that makes any difference.

 

[allen fletcher]

You can check the fuel cut off valve by switching car car on at key up the hood and pull the spade connection with wire attached and you should hear it klick when you touch the spade to the switch if it does klick I would say its working but do not blank off with a bolt you will bugger up the carb thread or worse set the car on fire if you do not get a good seal again when you run the car

 

[VmanC]

I put some 98Ron Total petrol in, but this has all been drained off and replaced with usual 95Ron. I am investiagating the failure of the solenoid in the idle cut off valve by getting a bolt to seal the hole where the solenoid sits and see if that makes any difference.

I was thinking more of diesel, a change of unleaded shouldn't matter. If you're going to take the solenoid out you can also see it operate by connecting the wire, then with the ignition on, touch the body of the solenoid to earth, you should see the plunger retract into the body, it's this that makes the clicking noise that Allen mentioned.

The most common cause of poor starting amongst the Pandas I've had has been a poor high tension current, either from poor s/pugs or leads, but I'm assuming you've checked for a spark.

 

[don.gilkes]

You can check the fuel cut off valve by switching car car on at key up the hood and pull the spade connection with wire attached and you should hear it klick when you touch the spade to the switch if it does klick I would say its working but do not blank off with a bolt you will bugger up the carb thread or worse set the car on fire if you do not get a good seal again when you run the car

I noticed on an earlier posting that you said that the car will not start if this solenoid has failed. Is this your experience. I've put two different solenoids across the battery and neither of them retract even though I am showing a reistance across the connection to earth.