General Why?

Currently reading:
General Why?

STUT

New member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
19
Points
6
Location
Coventry
Why are diesels more expensive to run than patrol cars?
I have been on the forum about two weeks now and I'm looking for a car that will save me money after a gas guzzling Audi TT 225. In my head I had decided to look at the 1.4 Multi jet, but a fe of you have said that its probably cheaper over ownership to go for the 1.2? Can anyone shed light on how much more I can expect to pay by going Diesel?
 
Not sure of the specifics but petrol engines are cheaper to service and they have longer service intervals. The small petrol engines are nearly as frugal as diesels but petrol is cheaper than diesel (enough to more than negate the MPG difference). Theres probably more stuff aswell but I can't think of them at the moment.
 
Firstly diesel is more expensive than petrol, this means that the big difference in fuel consumption doesn't equate to as big a saving in real terms.
Secondly diesels will require more frequent oil changes than 1.2's
Finally, 1.2's are the cheapest 500.

All of these things together mean that unless you're driving to the moon and back, the 1.2 will be cheaper to run over the length of time that most people will keep their 500.
 
Last edited:
Cost price doesn't always come into it, because at the end it will be worth more. You need to decide how long you intend to keep the car for how many miles and the type of trips then calculate the whole costs.
 
Cost price doesn't always come into it, because at the end it will be worth more. You need to decide how long you intend to keep the car for how many miles and the type of trips then calculate the whole costs.
Yes, but the more something's costs at the start, the more it will depreciate. You'd probably be better off putting the extra money in a savings account and earning interest on it. Just as an example, why would you go and spend an extra thousand pounds so in a few years time your car can be worth 500 quid more?

Someone calculated the break even point of having an MJ over a 1.2 and it was something obscenely large and more than 90% of 500 owners will keep their car for. If you're going to keep the car for a long time and do astronomical mileage then the MJ is the way to go as long as you're not doing lots of short journeys, otherwise 1.2 all the way. The 1.2 has precious little to go wrong, the 1.3 MJ has that lovely DPF and a turbo. Loads of people who own MJ Panda's have found that the actuators seize on them after a while, call me a luddite, but I'll take the fantastically reliable 1.2 FIRE any day :)
 
Residuals.... You see I think they are ok, I guess it depends how you look at it. I would guess you could buy a 1.2 pop for less than 9k, run it for 3 years and still get back 6k, that's a 3k loss. Buy a polo, pay 13k and in 3 years it will be worth 7k a 6k loss, double the 500. The up might be a bit better though. The more you spend the more you lose. I wouldn't go for the mj either, small cars should be petrol powered.
 
Do any Fiat cars have good residual values?

My first 500 was bought new at a dealer then part exchanged, so bought in the worst way and sold in the worst way too. Still got 57% of my entire purchase are price back after four years. Not at all bad, especially as nearly half of the loss was VAT.
 
Last edited:
Cost price doesn't always come into it, because at the end it will be worth more. You need to decide how long you intend to keep the car for how many miles and the type of trips then calculate the whole costs.

Not strictly true; in the end, they will both be worth scrap value, which will likely be the same.

If, like most folks, you sell it before the end, then you'll get a bit more for a diesel, but nothing like as much as the premium you paid for it in the first place.

500 residuals are incredibly strong; it's in the top ten lists for lowest depreciating cars. This makes it an appalingly bad buy secondhand; if you keep your car 3 years, buying a new one will likely cost you less in total than buying a 3yr old car, even more so if you can get a good discount on the car.
 
Last edited:
Realistically you would need to keep it for a very long time for the mj and 1.2 to be worth the same. If the aim is to send the least amount possible then the 1.2 is the one to go for.
 
Out of interest, which is the better car to drive out of the 1.2 and mjet? I've driven the 1.2 and thought it was ok for town driving. I drove a 1.3 mjet MiTo and thought it was c***. It didn't feel like it was a turbo diesel at all!
 
Out of interest, which is the better car to drive out of the 1.2 and mjet? I've driven the 1.2 and thought it was ok for town driving. I drove a 1.3 mjet MiTo and thought it was c***. It didn't feel like it was a turbo diesel at all!

I've driven a MiTo 1.3 JTDm and know what you mean about it not feeling like a turbo, but it still shifted fairly well in 'D' mode on the DNA switch. Fiat diesels (my Stilo JTD included) seem to have a lot less sudden shove than other diesels like VW's TDI engines, and do feel less turbo-like. My Stilo will only really surge along if I floor it, but it still feels pokey enough. The power band is a lot more progressive, which I actually prefer. Even a mate who's very pro VW Group says the VW TDI engine has to be 'rowed along', which is a lot less relaxing than driving a Fiat diesel.

On residuals, it is pretty much just the 500 & Panda 4x4 that are good. The Panda's over the longer term seem to hang onto quite a bit of their value, if you think a 2004 1.2 Eleganza is worth about £2000 today, it was only £8000 brand new, so that's a pretty good return. However in the short to medium term they can't compete with the 500 for residuals.

The rest of the current range does lose money heavily in the first 1-3 years, but I've noticed the higher spec Bravos in particular seem to hang onto their value reasonably after 4 years, especially compared to the Stilo. My Stilo was bought (by me) for £3950 at 4 years old & with 50,000 miles, 1 owner, leather interior, bigger wheels & stereo upgrade. That was a dealer price. I couldn't get a 4 year old, 50,000 mile Bravo Multijet Sport without finding at least £5500 for a private sale, let alone a dealer with warranty etc. So the residuals (while partly helped by the scrappage scheme and general new car price rises) are moving in the right direction for Fiat, and i'm sure the reception of the 500 will have gone some way to helping this.
 
The MiTo is 85bhp down form the original 95bhp without the DPF. You will notice the extra shove of the MJ II over the 75bhp MJ I. Comparing a MJ I with a 1.4 there's noticeably more torque but less top end. The issue with the size of the 500 is the noise from the MJ but if you want performance and mpg the MJ II is good. Still I wouldn't recommend a diesel unless you had to for business reasons.
 
But (presumably) the MJ costs less to run due to higher MPG, therefore apart from the initial higher purchase cost they cost less to run on a daily basis. Oil changes are hardly worthy of mention as even the MJ only usually requires an oil change once per year.

Having said that, I understand MJs suffer if only ever driven around town, they do need a good hard drive occassionally.
 
Back
Top