Technical Why Twinair never really worked

[306maxi]

Aye! you are never sure what threads will go on & on & on & on, well, just practically go all over the place . Apart from this being quite a large forum & there is "some" on here that just cannot resist commenting more than is really necessary, but hey ho that's human nature fore you. It can get a bit entertaining though for all the wrong reasons as has been seen so many times before......Just my observations.


It's only too easy to vent your feelings in front of a computer screen to total strangers, simple. As I've said before willy waving can take on many faces, & to a certain degree I've done it myself when I first started on here. Strung out on tramadol & sav blanc getting over a hip replacement operation, & getting to grips with the workings of a computer for the first time. I have to admit I used the forum as a form of amusement at times. Further on up the line, I'm older,wiser & off the drugs...

I just don’t get it, the point I and the video made were both correct. The twinair didn’t live up to the promise which was to have really good fuel economy AND performance.

 

[Mercky]

I just don’t get it, the point I and the video made were both correct. The twinair didn’t live up to the promise which was to have really good fuel economy AND performance.

Dunno about that, it’s exactly what I like about the TA, ok it’s not REALLY good but it’s not half bad either

 

[306maxi]

Dunno about that, it’s exactly what I like about the TA, ok it’s not REALLY good but it’s not half bad either

No one ever said it was a crap engine, all that was said was that it didn’t deliver what was promised.

 

[jimboy]

I just don’t get it, the point I and the video made were both correct. The twinair didn’t live up to the promise which was to have really good fuel economy AND performance.

Maxi, I have no idea of your age group, but obviously not too young, in all seriousness are you really all that surprised on the events of this thread? I'm an old git & been around the block a few times & there are others on here like myself. We come from a time when speaking face to face was the norm, as I've said anything goes when in front of a screen with no real come back. In the likes of this forum there is no real harm done apart from some egos, but in the the likes of face wipe & ****ter, there are far more serious implications, way off topic but entwined in a sad way.

 

[lsgraham_uk]

No one ever said it was a crap engine, all that was said was that it didn’t deliver what was promised.

It sort of did though, just not at the same time.

 

[306maxi]

It sort of did though, just not at the same time.

You’ve missed the point...

 

[lsgraham_uk]

You’ve missed the point...

And you're labouring

Let's face it very few cars manage economy and performance at same time. Even that magical baverian motor wagen

 

[306maxi]

And you're labouring

Let's face it very few cars manage economy and performance at same time. Even that magical baverian motor wagen

You’re literally moaning because I’ve made a valid point and have evidence to show why the twinair didn’t achieve its mission...

 

[jimboy]

I'm afraid like other threads this one has been around the block, all over the place, been the subject of a few egos & some willy waving to boot. The original subject was what it was, simple. Then the opinions started, fair enough, to a point, but you see opinions are like arseholes, we all have one.

I'm a bit tickled at times on here for the very fact you have no idea what thread will go on & on for no apparent reason other than blinkered opinions. I've seen some threads on here that start off with the simplest/lamest content that really only deserves one answer, but will go on forever, then an interesting subject/debate comes up, but gets very little interest/posts. Of course this is only my point of view & I should know better, but I do pride myself on having a holistic point of view.

Well that's about all the ramblings from me & my observations....

 

[Mercky]

You’re literally moaning because I’ve made a valid point and have evidence to show why the twinair didn’t achieve its mission...

Did it deliver 67mpg or whatever they claimed - eh no. I think we’ve all worked that one out by now thanks, particularly those of us who actually own a TA.

 

[306maxi]

Did it deliver 67mpg or whatever they claimed - eh no. I think we’ve all worked that one out by now thanks, particularly those of us who actually own a TA.

And the video explains why...

 

[Mercky]

Now that I think about it, I did actually get 67mpg over a 30 mile run when the car was quite new but driving with gaining max mpg in mind. I can get early 60’s no prob on a 250 mile trip I do now and again to west cork and thats a mix of motorway and B road and driving fairly normally. So it is capable of it but just not consistently on an urban cycle. It’s the combination of been able to get pretty impressive mpg if I look for it along with being a very entertaining engine if I want it to be that makes ownership still very enjoyable nearly 5 years later. Personally I couldn’t care less if it doesn’t achieve advertised figures and one would need to be pretty naive to have believed it would.

 

[AGH1965]

I just don’t get it, the point I and the video made were both correct.

Not completely. You suggested with this video that the "disappointing" real-world fuel economy of the TA is caused by the low air/fuel ratios at high engine loads. That is not the case. Yes, the Euro 5 TA had such low air/fuel ratios, but the Euro 6 TA hasn't. Compared to the Euro 5 TA, the Euro 6 TA has a fuel economy improvement at full throttle of about 30 percent, but real-world fuel economy isn't improved much at all. In other words, the cause of the "disappointing" real-world fuel economy of the TA is differs from what you suggested.

all that was said was that it didn’t deliver what was promised.

Please show me where FIAT promised any real-world fuel economy figures? FIAT published NEDC fuel economy figures. How many NEDCs did you perform to verify if the figures published by FIAT were correct? None?

 

[306maxi]

Not completely. You suggested with this video that the "disappointing" real-world fuel economy of the TA is caused by the low air/fuel ratios at high engine loads. That is not the case. Yes, the Euro 5 TA had such low air/fuel ratios, but the Euro 6 TA hasn't. Compared to the Euro 5 TA, the Euro 6 TA has a fuel economy improvement at full throttle of about 30 percent, but real-world fuel economy isn't improved much at all. In other words, the cause of the "disappointing" real-world fuel economy of the TA is differs from what you suggested.

Please show me where FIAT promised any real-world fuel economy figures? FIAT published NEDC fuel economy figures. How many NEDCs did you perform to verify if the figures published by FIAT were correct? None?

Are you hard of understanding? The NEDC IS the “promise” and the twinair seems farther from the “promise” than the vast majority of cars out there.

The views in this thread are exactly why the planet is where it is today, as long as people get cheap tax they don’t care what real fuel economy a car gets and what real world harm their car is doing in the long term.

 

[Mercky]

FFS Maxi, seriously dude, call it a day

 

[306maxi]

FFS Maxi, seriously dude, call it a day

The original post was perfectly valid...

It literally says that you can’t have economy and power from a small and highly stressed engine at the same time and that’s borne out in what people have seen with their cars.

 

[UFI]

As yu come from a country full of V8 utes, I can't imagine that a proton makes anyone turn their hear or feel envious in anyway.

Gee, if only I also owned a V8 pick up... oh, wait I do!:slayer:

This is where you make no sense at all.

The relative energy density per litre of fuel is about 35Mj/L for diesel and 34MJ/L for petrol, so you plucked your 15% figure out of thin air.

Your junior high school debating skills don't impress anyone. Claim any data that agrees with you as gospel, and any data that to the contrary is always dismissed.

That might be OK except I've literally NEVER seen you post data, just nonsense that you do indeed pluck out of thin air.

Because there's absolutely no way you don't know there's a lot more energy in a litre of diesel than petrol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

Diesel vs E5 or 95 or 98 octane is 15%.

Let me guess, there are problems with the data set right?

 

[UFI]

The views in this thread are exactly why the planet is where it is today, as long as people get cheap tax they don’t care what real fuel economy a car gets and what real world harm their car is doing in the long term.

LOL really?

At 60mpg I'm putting out 110g/km. That's better than 99% of vehicles on the road. Even at 50mpg you'd still be doing better than 90% of vehicles on the road.

I think you might have this mistaken with a VW forum?

 

[306maxi]

LOL really?

At 60mpg I'm putting out 110g/km. That's better than 99% of vehicles on the road. Even at 50mpg you'd still be doing better than 90% of vehicles on the road.

I think you might have this mistaken with a VW forum?

Have I?

 

[306maxi]

Gee, if only I also owned a V8 pick up... oh, wait I do!:slayer:



Your junior high school debating skills don't impress anyone. Claim any data that agrees with you as gospel, and any data that to the contrary is always dismissed.

That might be OK except I've literally NEVER seen you post data, just nonsense that you do indeed pluck out of thin air.

Because there's absolutely no way you don't know there's a lot more energy in a litre of diesel than petrol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

Diesel vs E5 or 95 or 98 octane is 15%.

Let me guess, there are problems with the data set right?

So while Andy got his calorific values wrong, what’s the average thermal efficiency of a diesel vs a petrol engine car?

I think people have taken this very personal against their chosen engine, it’s not like that at all.

Everyone always goes on about the 1.2 being slow, I don’t take offence at that :laugh: