General Which winter tyres are people going for

[TrevC]

Like Mick, I've been driving for over 40 years with no mishaps in snowy conditions. I concede that some of this is good fortune as you can't control what other drivers do, but I've always felt winter tyres too much faff and expense for perhaps a few days every few years when we get snow. I appreciate they are also better in wet or icy conditions too. That's why the latest all season tyres appeal - they are nearly as good as pure winters, but with none of the hassle, work out a lot less expensive and give a quieter, more compliant ride than summer tyres. Has anyone else out there tried them?

 

[jrkitching]

Although frupi's video makes the point extremely well, my overriding thought is that it's a terrible waste of what looked like a very nice Bel-Air .

The '59 Bel-Air is truly a classic icon of conspicuous consumption.

It wasn't designed to be crashed - it was designed to be parked up on Mulholland Drive on a warm, starry summer's evening with the right girl...

 

[T Bay]

Like Mick, I've been driving for over 40 years with no mishaps in snowy conditions. I concede that some of this is good fortune as you can't control what other drivers do, but I've always felt winter tyres too much faff and expense for perhaps a few days every few years when we get snow. I appreciate they are also better in wet or icy conditions too. That's why the latest all season tyres appeal - they are nearly as good as pure winters, but with none of the hassle, work out a lot less expensive and give a quieter, more compliant ride than summer tyres. Has anyone else out there tried them?

As I said in my first post on this thread, I have been using the cross climate ones on all my cars for three years now as they are superb in every condition. Maybe £5 more than a standard summer tyre but with 95% of the benefits of a winter tyre. Why wouldn't you use them?

 

[jrkitching]

That's why the latest all season tyres appeal - they are nearly as good as pure winters, but with none of the hassle, work out a lot less expensive and give a quieter, more compliant ride than summer tyres. Has anyone else out there tried them?

There's an Auto Express test review here, which bears out much of what you're saying. Like most similar reviews, the key point to take away is the utterly abysmal braking and cornering performance of even high quality summer tyres in winter conditions (see the figures on the last page - the summer tyre's performance was almost four times worse than the best of the all season tyres).

 

[Kekybobo]

Here's my two cents.

I usually run 16" alloys with pzero Nero tyres. I got 4 14" steelies for £10 each from a breakers yard and got proper (mountain with snowflake) part worn winter tyres from a local place. Theyre practically new and cost £20 each, so that's £30 a corner. I store my wheels in my garage under a table so theyre not taking up any useful space.

I changed my wheels over at the beginning of November when the laws of averages suggest the weather will be wetter and colder. Maybe not everyday, but generally.

I'm assuming my 2 tyre sets will last twice as long as normal as theyre only being used for half a year each, as apposed to one set for a full year therefore a saving on tyres in the long run. Ive also see a significant increase in mpg as the tyres are 165 as apposed to 195.

Even with the reduced tyre width the ride and grip is the same if not better.

For the overall cost out lay I'm very pleased and for me it was a no brainier.

Tom

 

[rkt2003]

I had Winter tyres fitted to my 500 and now on the Punto ,between 2010-13 we had 3 bad winters here in the north east and working in Guisborough which has its own mini climate imho .I live in Redcar and its only 4.5 miles to Guisborough ,but its uphill and 282 feet higher or 311 ft above sea level and those winters would have anything from 3 inches to dangerous 7-8 inches of snow and boy did those tyres get me out of trouble initially after having snow socks which worked but not as well .

 

[TrevC]

Thanks for that link, JRK - makes interesting reading. The Continental summer tyre is the type that the Cross Climates replaced on our Suzuki, so although ultimate dry performance has been compromised slightly, the vastly better performance in winter conditions makes me happy with my choice.
Shame I can't get Cross Climates or, it seems, any of the others in the 195/45 15s that my 500 needs. And no, I don't want to buy another set of wheels!

 

[Mick F]

Another point .................

Did I read on this forum a while back regarding tyre shelf-life?
Something about a date number written on the side and how tyres deteriorate "dangerously" over time?

Maybe someone could find that thread and comment on the age of their winter tyres they have stored each summer?

Small point I know.

Thanks,
Mick.

 

[frupi]

You raise a good point Mick, but it is about how the tyres are stored when off the road.

It is accepted by those in the industry, that once tyres reach a shelf life of around six years, depending on how they have been stored, the rubber could be compromised. In my own case, because I store my winter wheels with the tyres on the rims in the garage, inflated to the correct pressures, in the dark with good ventilation on a wheel tree and properly covered, I personally don't have any particular concern because I know what conditions they are being stored under.

The people who should worry, whether their vehicle is fitted with summer or winter tyres, are those that have had the same tyres fitted to the car for years in the case of those doing very low mileages, or those taking the risk of buying part worn tyres, something, personally, I would never ever do.

Look at the sidewalls of very old tyres and often you'll find cracking, one sure way of telling that the rubber is breaking down and often, they'll be the cause of blow outs at speed on motorways. Caravan owners are often the most guilty of this, years and years using the same tyres and then, bang, blow out.

I accept that there are plenty of people on this site who think that those of us who choose a bit more safety over convenience, or are just being anal, wouldn't do what folk like me do, but then that's our choice and I'll spend my money how I like. Not only that, if I do feel like taking a trip over to Germany or Austria in the winter, I don't have to worry mucking about sorting out tyres as I already have them!

 

[jrkitching]

Did I read on this forum a while back regarding tyre shelf-life?
Something about a date number written on the side and how tyres deteriorate "dangerously" over time?

Maybe someone could find that thread and comment on the age of their winter tyres they have stored each summer?

Small point I know.

No, it's a valid concern and well worth discussing.

As frupi says, the service life of tyres is hugely dependent on the conditions under which they're kept and used. The real enemy of rubber is sunlight (more particularly, ultraviolet light) - keep them in the dark, and they'll likely last many times longer. It's also important not to store them in such a way that the carcass is under compression at a particular point - I've seen many, many tyres ruined by being kept under the vehicle in an ovetightened hanger. Any official statement of safe life has to take into account the 'worst case' scenario; if kept inflated on rims on a tyre tree in the dark, they'll likely be good for at least ten years. Leave them on a vehicle that's stored off-road in direct sunlight and they could easily be scrap after six months.

As a rule of thumb, I'd say anyone doing 10,000 miles pa or more who stores their wheels & tyres correctly when not in use can expect to get the full service life from a set of summer & winter tyres.

 

[rkt2003]

No, it's a valid concern and well worth discussing.

As frupi says, the service life of tyres is hugely dependent on the conditions under which they're kept and used. The real enemy of rubber is sunlight - keep them in the dark, and they'll likely last many times longer. It's also important not to store them in such a way that the carcass is under compression an a particular point - I've seen many, many tyres ruined by being kept under the vehicle in an ovetightened hanger. Any official statement of safe life has to take into account the 'worst case' scenario; if kept inflated on rims on a tyre tree in the dark, they'll likely be good for at least ten years. Leave them on a vehicle that's stored off-road in direct sunlight and they could easily be scrap after six months.

As a rule of thumb, I'd say anyone doing 10,000 miles pa or more who stores their wheels & tyres correctly when not in use can expect to get the full service life from a set of summer & winter tyres.

Yes i took the shelf life on board and replaced my 2012 ones this October for this exact safety reason and the last few days we have had rain ,ice and snow and they have been great ,im new to the winter tyres as most of my driving years were without ,but having gone through the winters of 2010-13 up here with them fitted i feel much safer in the context of braking and more in control with what`s happening with the front wheels etc .

 

[TrevC]

Yes, keeping the tyres in the dark is very worthwhile if you can do it. My father in law still drives the Citroen Xsara Picasso he bought new in 2004. It's now just coming up to 20,000 miles and when I was cleaning it a few weeks ago I noted that the original fit Michelin Energy tyres had no crazing on the sidewalls. This surprised me until I thought about it - he only does a few short journeys each week and always puts the car away in his windowless garage when he's not driving it.

 

[John202020]

If your dads car has the original tyres they're over ten years old and should be replaced regardless of anything else.

 

[frupi]

If your dads car has the original tyres they're over ten years old and should be replaced regardless of anything else.

As the gentleman is apparently just doing the odd trip to the shops, probably not at great speed either, he probably doesn't have a great deal to actually worry about. What I would not do knowing the information given, is take the car out onto the motorway and rip along at 70mph on 10 year old tyres, that would make a certain muscle in my rear end quiver slightly. As it stands, the tyres used in their current manner, probably barely get warm. At speed, they'll definitely get warm, and if the rubber is deteriorating, it could cause significant issues.

 

[TrevC]

Yeah, you summed up his typical use in your first sentence, Frupi. He seldom has cause to exceed 40mph, but he's driven me occasionally and is perfectly safe and aware. We take him on holiday, so he doesn't need to use motorways!
I'm interested in the ways in which tyres degrade. Does the compound harden, or embrittle or what? If there is no visible ageing, should they be replaced anyway? Any tyre specialists out there?

 

[frupi]

As tyres age, the rubber can become quite hard. I had an alloy wheel with a tyre on it that was 8 years old with almost 8mm of tread on it. It had barely been used but the rubber was rock hard. I replaced it because I do an awful lot of motorway journeys and I just didn't have any confidence in it. Basically, the chemical structure of the compound deteriorates over time. Sunlight does no favours to tyres at all.

Those folks with the spare wheel carried outside underneath of the vehicle, often forget they are there. Ideally, they should be rotated with the other wheels on the vehicle over time. On my last works van, at each tyre change, I insisted that the new spare was taken from underneath the van and used as a road wheel, and one of the new tyres then took its place under the van.

Because I run both summer and winter tyres on their own wheels, I get on average, six years out my summers and around 4 years out of my winter tyres. Once the winter tyres are down to around 3mm, I just use them into the summer until they are down to 2mm and replace them.

 

[Alexcubek]

Pictures of the painted winter wheels & tyres

 

[Funky Spike]

Yokohama W-Drive fitted to the Abarth today, couple of days late because of trouble sourcing the tyres. Excellent service from AA Tyres, run by Event Tyres I believe.
£291 fitted on to the spare rims and swapped over with the wheels on the car and all done at my place.

Spike

 

[snoozeboy]

Following some great advice on here to help with the fitting, I just put the following on my newly acquired 2011 1.2 500C:

Rims: INTER ACTION Black Ice 5.5x14 4x98 ET35 58.1, NOIR MAT
Tyres: 175/65 R14 82 T HANKOOK Winter I-Cept Rs2 W452

The 14" rims ride a lot better than the 16" it came with, but obviously don't look as nice. They still look fine though as I think the black colour looks better with the grey body and black roof than grey alloys.

 

[snoozeboy]

That's why the latest all season tyres appeal - they are nearly as good as pure winters, but with none of the hassle, work out a lot less expensive and give a quieter, more compliant ride than summer tyres. Has anyone else out there tried them?

Yes, I drove a friend's Hyundai SUV on all seasons the other day, in a couple of inches of snow and slush on flat terrain. It was terrifying. Heavy weight, high centre of gravity and not enough stopping or cornering traction, plus a false sense of security in that you could get going but not stop.

Maybe they'd be less terrifying on a lighter car like a 500, but here in Switzerland, there's really no compromise possible on winter tyres. In the UK I wouldn't/didn't bother, but would avoid driving on snow days. Even if you're on winters in the UK, it's still dangerous on a snow day because of everyone else.

My verdict on the all seasons was that they fell between two stools - nowhere near good enough for proper winter and probably too much of a compromise on the remaining 8 months of the year.